Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-24-07, 08:33 PM   #1
mattkime 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Spoke Diameter?

I recently bought a Park Tool TM-1 Spoke Tension meter. I was surprised to see that I needed to know the diameter of my spokes. I have a 2002 Schwinn S-30 mountain bike.

Does anyone know the likely diameter of my spokes? I'm certain that they're steel.
mattkime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-07, 08:50 PM   #2
kenhill3
use your best eye
 
kenhill3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bikes: '75 Bertin, '93 Parkpre Team 925, '04 Kona King Kikapu, '05 Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 3,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Somehow, you are gonna hafta measure them using a caliper or, more accurately, with a micrometer. 1.8mm = 15gauge , 2.0mm = 14gauge. A tension meter measures sideways deflection in the spoke. With 14ga. and 15ga. spokes of EQUAL (proper) tension, the deflection of the (thinner) 15ga. spoke will be greater by virtue of it's being thinner. Perhaps some more experienced wrenches can chime in here.

BTW- What are you doing with a tension meter? :O)
kenhill3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-07, 08:58 PM   #3
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Did your TM-1 not come with a gauge to measure the spoke diameter? I just bought a TM-1, it came with instructions, a card with the conversion table on it for figuring the tension of various sizes and types of spokes, and a handy metal gauge to measure spoke diameter-

Last edited by well biked; 09-24-07 at 09:09 PM.
well biked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-07, 11:06 PM   #4
Wil Davis
Curmudgeon
 
Wil Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nausea, New Hamster
Bikes: (see http://wildavis.smugmug.com/Bikes) Bianchi Veloce (2005), Nishiki Cascade (1992), Schwinn Super Sport (1983)
Posts: 1,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's a picture of the chart & the spoke gauge:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg spr_TM32_2006228_78140.jpg (54.0 KB, 75 views)
Wil Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-07, 04:03 AM   #5
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,614
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkime View Post
I have a 2002 Schwinn S-30 mountain bike. Does anyone know the likely diameter of my spokes?
Your bike almost certainly has 14 ga spokes.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-07, 04:29 AM   #6
cascade168
Klaatu barada nikto
 
cascade168's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern NH
Bikes:
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by well biked View Post
Did your TM-1 not come with a gauge to measure the spoke diameter? I just bought a TM-1, it came with instructions, a card with the conversion table on it for figuring the tension of various sizes and types of spokes, and a handy metal gauge to measure spoke diameter-
+1 on the "handy metal gauge". If you did not get one, you should contact your supplier, or Park, and obtain one. Calipers will (obviously) do the job, but that little gauge is nice to have.

If you go to this page:

http://www.parktool.com/products/doc...6428_84698.pdf

the gauge is item #20 (Park part #1059)

Last edited by cascade168; 09-25-07 at 04:30 AM. Reason: addition
cascade168 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-07, 08:22 AM   #7
mattkime 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
you're right, i'm missing the diameter gauge and chart.
mattkime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-07, 01:42 PM   #8
smurf hunter
Senior Member
 
smurf hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Auburn, WA
Bikes: 2006 LeMond Croix de Fer, 2005 Kona Dew Deluxe
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The chart is arguably more valuable, as you need to know if the spoke(s) are within range for the given diameter and material.
smurf hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-07, 04:48 PM   #9
Wil Davis
Curmudgeon
 
Wil Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nausea, New Hamster
Bikes: (see http://wildavis.smugmug.com/Bikes) Bianchi Veloce (2005), Nishiki Cascade (1992), Schwinn Super Sport (1983)
Posts: 1,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkime View Post
you're right, i'm missing the diameter gauge and chart.
If you still have the original box, check to see that the chart is not in the very bottom.

- Wil
Wil Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-07, 05:52 PM   #10
blamp28
Bikaholic
 
blamp28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Western, Michigan
Bikes: Trek Fuel 90, Giant OCR, Rans Screamer Tandem
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf hunter View Post
The chart is arguably more valuable, as you need to know if the spoke(s) are within range for the given diameter and material.

The chart is downloadable at the Park tool website.
blamp28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-07, 06:34 PM   #11
cascade168
Klaatu barada nikto
 
cascade168's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern NH
Bikes:
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blamp28 View Post
The chart is downloadable at the Park tool website.
Here it is:

http://www.parktool.com/products/doc...05912_4301.pdf

But ...

without a determination of the spoke gauge & type, the chart is of no use whatsoever.
cascade168 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-07, 06:37 PM   #12
cascade168
Klaatu barada nikto
 
cascade168's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern NH
Bikes:
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkime View Post
you're right, i'm missing the diameter gauge and chart.
Seriously, the folks at Park are excellent with respect to customer service.

Just send them mail at: info@parktool.com

I'll bet they send you the chart and little_gauge/tool_thingy for the asking. Go for it.
cascade168 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-07, 06:34 AM   #13
AndrewP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Montreal
Bikes: Peugeot Hybrid, Minelli Hybrid
Posts: 6,521
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Without the chart the tool is useless, because the tool only gives a deflection reading and you need the chart to convert the deflection reading into tension.
AndrewP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-07, 07:36 AM   #14
mattkime 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
>> Without the chart the tool is useless, because the tool only gives a deflection reading and you need the chart to convert the deflection reading into tension.

Yes, I figured out so much. The chart is online although I still needed the gauge for spoke thickness. I called park tool and they're sending me one.
mattkime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-07, 04:09 PM   #15
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 11,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
After a while when you've been building wheels for a while, you can just touch a spoke, roll it in your fingers and know exactly what diameter it is.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 12:43 AM   #16
shinyballs
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West coast, U.S.
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
can the Park Tool TM-1 work with 12 gauge spokes?
shinyballs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 07:30 AM   #17
Soil_Sampler
A little North of Hell
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 4,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinyballs View Post
can the Park Tool TM-1 work with 12 gauge spokes?
Are you working on a 36" "Monster Cruiser" wheel?

You could use it to get the spoke tension even, but no way to
calculate 12ga. tension on the chart.
Soil_Sampler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 08:44 AM   #18
kenhill3
use your best eye
 
kenhill3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Olympia, Washington
Bikes: '75 Bertin, '93 Parkpre Team 925, '04 Kona King Kikapu, '05 Bianchi Vigorelli
Posts: 3,058
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Use the chart to develop an extrapolation based on cross sectional area. :0)
__________________
"I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." - Kurt Vonnegut jr.
kenhill3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-07, 09:39 PM   #19
shinyballs
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West coast, U.S.
Bikes:
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm thinking of using it for my 36h 26in mtb wheel on an electric hub motor. Seems like the spoke gets loose when I hit a bump. Hopefully this meter will make the tension all even.
shinyballs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-09, 04:54 PM   #20
NWsushi
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Actually the gauge system is not reliable way to measure spoke diameter (from what I hear there are number of gauge system that measures wires differently). I think the tension meter chart ,and the little tool included to measure spoke diameter, references spoke diameter in millimeter (mm).

Last edited by NWsushi; 02-25-09 at 04:59 PM.
NWsushi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-09, 06:50 PM   #21
DOS
Senior Member
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Your bike almost certainly has 14 ga spokes.
Not necessarily. If they are butted, they would likley be 14 ga on the ends, but something different in the middle, which is what counts when measuring tension.

To OP, Assuming they are pretty standard spokes, until you get the gauge, here is a way to guesstimate the diameter using your eyes and hands:

1. If you can see easily that the last inch or so of the spoke on each end is thicker than the middle section, then you most likely have double butted spokes that are 2mm on the ends and 1.7mm in the middle. Use the column on the chart for 1.7mm spokes

2. If visually, the change in thisckness is not obvious, run you fingers slowly along the spoke, as you near the end, if you can feel the change in thisckness, then you likely have double butted spokes that are 2.0mm on the ends and 1.8mm in the middle. Use values from the chart for 1.8mm spokes

3. If the spoke thickness feels uniform from end to end, probably you have 2mm straight gauge spokes.
DOS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-09, 07:59 PM   #22
DaJMasta
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: Giant XTC Team Custom XC bike, Nashbar tourer custom commuter
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would have originally assumed 2.0 millimeter, but it seems that earlier models of this bike used 1.8mm straight spokes too, so it's difficult to say.

Without a caliper, you can use a more tedious method:

Cut a 1"x1/4" strip of paper (doesn't have to be exact)
coil it around the spoke, then unravel it so that the end coiled under just barely meets the strip coming around (fully encircling the spoke) and mark it with a sharpened pencil.
Take that sheet and measure the circumference of the spoke by measuring from the edge of the paper to the line.

If it's almost exactly 7mm, then you have a 2.0mm spoke. If it's under 6mm, you have a 1.8mm spoke.

It's not terribly accurate, so it may be worth repeating a couple of times, but the difference is significant enough that with a sharp pencil and a decent ruler you should be able to figure it out.
DaJMasta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-09, 09:24 PM   #23
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
All this info would've probably been useful 2 years ago guys.
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-09, 09:55 PM   #24
DOS
Senior Member
 
DOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arlington, VA USA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
all this info would've probably been useful 2 years ago guys.
doh!
DOS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:49 AM.