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  1. #1
    Senior Member dirtylaundry's Avatar
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    Help! Fixed Cup on Bottom Bracket Will Not Come off!

    So I've been at it for two days now. The fixed cup on my bottom bracket will not budge even a bit. I'm trying to turn it counter clockwise. It's the Fixed cup on my drive side. Its 36mm's. I believe it's a Loose-bearing square taper bottom bracket on my Bennotto. The bike is from the 70's or 80's. Am I going the right direction?

  2. #2
    coffeeeeee p4nh4ndle's Avatar
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    unless it's italian or french thread, you're turning it in the wrong direction

  3. #3
    Senior Member dirtylaundry's Avatar
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    I think it is italian... a book I am reading is saying that it might have a right hand thread. In that case, am I going the right direction by going clockwise to loosen?

  4. #4
    Klaatu barada nikto cascade168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtylaundry View Post
    So I've been at it for two days now. The fixed cup on my bottom bracket will not budge even a bit. I'm trying to turn it counter clockwise. It's the Fixed cup on my drive side. Its 36mm's. I believe it's a Loose-bearing square taper bottom bracket on my Bennotto. The bike is from the 70's or 80's. Am I going the right direction?
    The first thing you need to do is measure the bottom bracket tube. It's going to be either 68mm or 70mm. If it's 68 then the fixed cup is a reverse thread and will loosen by turning CW (and that would be, most likely, why you're having problems). If it's 70mm then your thread is Italian and it would be a right handed thread (lefty loosey, righty tighty).

    The vast majority of bikes are 68mm/English and reverse threaded on the fixed_cup/drive side. Many times they are just really cranked on and they're a b1tch to break loose.

    Here's a great article (from Sheldon Brown, of course) on fixed cup BB's:

    http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
    "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
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  5. #5
    coffeeeeee p4nh4ndle's Avatar
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    beat me to it

  6. #6
    Senior Member dirtylaundry's Avatar
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    I got it! Guess it is a genuine Italian bike. Lefty Loosey. Alright now for the adjustable cup... It has four holes in it. What tool should I get to tighten and loosen it?

  7. #7
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    Can you look into the area from the other side to see any exposed thread? That may show you if its LH or RH.
    If you have been able to get a big load of torque to the cup and it doesn't budge, it might suggest you need to turn it the other way.
    Just this very day, after I had managed to turn the fixed cup about 20 degrees counter-clockwise, the mech at the friendly LBS told me it was LH thread, so I had tightened it.
    Luckily they had a cartridge bearing that would work, so I could destroy the fixed cup in the process of removal. So I did.

  8. #8
    Klaatu barada nikto cascade168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtylaundry View Post
    I got it! Guess it is a genuine Italian bike. Lefty Loosey. Alright now for the adjustable cup... It has four holes in it. What tool should I get to tighten and loosen it?
    You need a pin tool like this (several shown on this page):

    http://biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id...c=Cup-Spanners

    And then you need a lockring spanner (several here):

    http://biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id...kring-Spanners

    They tend to be specific to whatever adjustable cup and lockring you have on your bike.
    "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
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  9. #9
    Senior Member dirtylaundry's Avatar
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    well I got both sides out. now I need to know what kind of solvent I should use to clean off the grease. Can I use mineral spirits or the likes? Or will that rust up the metal?

  10. #10
    Klaatu barada nikto cascade168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtylaundry View Post
    well I got both sides out. now I need to know what kind of solvent I should use to clean off the grease. Can I use mineral spirits or the likes? Or will that rust up the metal?
    Just wipe out the old grease with a rag. Then take a wire brush and clean out the rust. Regrease and re-install, adjust, and ride ;-) Of course, it's likely you may need new bearings. Read the Park proceedure to inspect the bearings and do the adjustment.

    http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=93
    "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
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  11. #11
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascade168 View Post
    If it's 70mm then your thread is Italian and it would be a right handed thread (lefty loosey, righty tighty).
    This is not a very good metric to go by. There are 70mm british bb shells out there.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  12. #12
    Senior Member dirtylaundry's Avatar
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    sweet thanks. It really is very satisfying doing maintenance like this on your own. Not all that difficult so far. you people are very knowledgeable.

  13. #13
    Klaatu barada nikto cascade168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    This is not a very good metric to go by. There are 70mm british bb shells out there.
    I'd say it's correct way more than 99 times out of 100. Yes, there are 70mm British bb's out there, but they are rare and getting rarer all the time. Plus, how many British BB's would you say there are on a bike named "Bennotto"? Plus, I already linked him to a very complete list of all BB types that you, or I, or anyone on this forum is likely to ever see. I assume (apparently incorrectly) that the posters and the OP take the time to follow the links and read what's there.

    It's a metric that's only very rarely wrong.
    "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
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  14. #14
    Senior Member dirtylaundry's Avatar
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    okay it looks like I am going to need to use a solvent cleaner to get all the grease broken down. What should I use?

  15. #15
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Don't break down the grease, just wipe it off with paper-towels and rags (the fate of all t-shirts). Then I just do a light spray of 409 or Windex and the surface is perfectly squeaky clean. I prefer to use teflon plumbing-tape on the cup-threads when re-applying the cups. Lay up 2-4 layers and test install the cups only to see how snug they are. If they go on easily by hand remove the tape and increase the layers. If too tight to install by hand, re-install with fewer layers. Filling up the gaps in the threads with teflon tape greatly reduces the chances of phantom squeaks and groans from the BB-shell later. Also makes it easier to remove the cups for maintenance later.

  16. #16
    THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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    Maybe I missed where someone said this before, but you don't ever want to remove the R side cup from an Italian or French threaded frame unless you are replacing it. If it's stuck like Chuck, good, leave it, you want it in there rock solid as they will unscrew themselves otherwise. Frequently previous owners have used thread locker or something for just this reason. Just clean it out from the other side and repack it in situ, you'll save yourself a lot of pain.
    "I don't buy new frames, it just encourages them."

    -T.G.

  17. #17
    JRA...
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascade168 View Post
    I'd say it's correct way more than 99 times out of 100. Yes, there are 70mm British bb's out there, but they are rare and getting rarer all the time. Plus, how many British BB's would you say there are on a bike named "Bennotto"? Plus, I already linked him to a very complete list of all BB types that you, or I, or anyone on this forum is likely to ever see. I assume (apparently incorrectly) that the posters and the OP take the time to follow the links and read what's there.
    unless you're dealing with a high-end/modern bike, i'd have to go with operator, tolerances on lower- to mid-end bikes are not always good, and some did use 70 mm shells with english threads. benottos (an "italian " bike made in both italy and mexico) are particularly a guessing game as they used both italian and english threadings without much rhyme or reason. i generally prefer to use markings on the cup when possible, followed by country and dating of the bike.

  18. #18
    Sometimes knows stuff. rmfnla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    I prefer to use teflon plumbing-tape on the cup-threads when re-applying the cups. Lay up 2-4 layers and test install the cups only to see how snug they are. If they go on easily by hand remove the tape and increase the layers. If too tight to install by hand, re-install with fewer layers. Filling up the gaps in the threads with teflon tape greatly reduces the chances of phantom squeaks and groans from the BB-shell later. Also makes it easier to remove the cups for maintenance later.
    Yeah, but it does nothing to prevent corrosion in an area that is often exposed to water.

    Teflon tape is designed to facilitate the engagement of tapered pipe threads.

    BB cups should be coated with clean grease.
    Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...

  19. #19
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    bike shops have a heavy duty tool for that job with a lot of leverage.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
    unless you're dealing with a high-end/modern bike, i'd have to go with operator, tolerances on lower- to mid-end bikes are not always good, and some did use 70 mm shells with english threads. benottos (an "italian " bike made in both italy and mexico) are particularly a guessing game as they used both italian and english threadings without much rhyme or reason. i generally prefer to use markings on the cup when possible, followed by country and dating of the bike.
    The thing that eliminated all ambiguity in the type of threading was that the OP said the cup was "36mm". That is always Italian.

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