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Old 09-24-01, 09:26 AM   #1
RainmanP
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Shoe mechanics?

A couple of months ago someone posted a thread about having difficulty getting out of the pedal because of a loose cleat. Of course, we all went and tightened our cleats. This weekend I went to change my Look cleats and one of the tight screws kept turning and turning. I realized that the captive nut in the shoe had come loose and was turning. Anyone had this happen? I plan to carefully cut the cleat away with a hack saw, put a tiny amount of oil on the screw threads then drip a bit of epoxy into the nut area and hope it cements the nut back in place so I can get the screw out. Sound like a plan? For future prevention, should I put a dab of grease on the screws and just make sure to check them for tightness regularly? I don't think the offending screws are corroded in place just over-tightened.

By the way, keep an eye on your cleats. I have not paid much attention and mine are worn so far beyond the wear indicator holes that the slots on some of the rear screws are almost completely worn away. This is only a few months of wear! I never would have thought I walked that much on concrete during that time.
Regards,
Raymond
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Old 09-24-01, 09:45 AM   #2
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That is one of the reasons I'm dubious of clipless for long term touring. Once your cleats wear out, your pedals dont work so well. You have to carry spare cleats, or hope there is a good bike shop nearby. How much walking on trails does it take to wear out cleats?
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Old 09-24-01, 10:08 AM   #3
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Good points, Michael. I like clipless so much I am pretty sure I would be willing to carry extra cleats.
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Old 09-24-01, 10:22 AM   #4
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You might be able to access that nut from under the insole.
As far as cleat wear goes, get some kool covers, and put them on the cleat every time you leave the bike. Lake also makes a touring shoe which allows you to walk with look cleats, without the cleat hitting.
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Old 09-24-01, 10:38 AM   #5
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Rainman, you're supposed to be riding the bike up those hills, not walking.

I guess checking cleats for excessive wear before each ride can be added to the checklist; along with brakes, tire pressure, quick releases, etc.

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll re-lube my cleat screws every so often to prevent the problem you are having.

I hope you don't destroy the shoe in the process of removing the screw.
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Old 09-24-01, 10:47 AM   #6
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RainmanP,

I have been using a small dab of wheel bearing grease in the cleat screw holes for a long time. Allows you to get them really tight while keeping them from fusing together. I use a toothpick to apply the grease to the hole not the screw, this is not as messy as greasing the screw then fiddling to get them started.
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Old 09-24-01, 10:53 AM   #7
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Definitely grease the cleat screws.

Also, I suggest picking up a spare set of screws and throwing them in your patch kit. They don't weigh anything and it could save a ride, especially if you are in the middle of nowhere.

In my experience, MTB cleats don't get worn that much from walking because they are recessed pretty far in a sole that usually has pretty thick treads/lugs.
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Old 09-24-01, 11:09 AM   #8
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Thanks, guys. My first thought was that I might be able to access from inside. There is a removable insole, but the nuts are apparently in the permanent part of the sole. I do have a pair of Kool Kovers that I use most of the time, but I don't pull them out every time I have to walk a few feet. That's one reason I am kind of shocked at the amount of wear. I just did not think I walked on them that much.

RonH - HEYYY! We don't even HAVE hills here! Which makes me really paranoid about them.
Regards,
Raymond
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Old 09-24-01, 11:33 AM   #9
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I have heard of cleat bolts shearing off, they are pretty small for the forces involved. You can get heat-treated bolts which are much stronger than standard ones.
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Old 09-25-01, 02:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by RainmanP
RonH - HEYYY! We don't even HAVE hills here! Which makes me really paranoid about them.
Oh, I hear you...

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Old 09-25-01, 08:46 PM   #11
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When I bought my first pair of clipless shoes the LBS installed them way too tight. So when I had to make the inevitable adjustment ( he had my toes pointing out because that is supposedly a more natural stance, but when I pedal my toes go straight forward) I discvered that I couldn't turn the allen head screws without rounding them out. I ended up drilling thru the length of the screws to get them out, and put in a new set, a tightened them myself. Since then I insist that LBS mechanics use a torque wrench, or hands off!
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Old 09-26-01, 07:25 AM   #12
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The prognosis looks grim, ladies and gentlemen. Rather than a captive bolt, it looks like there is a plate with raised threaded collars that the screws thread into. I am thinking now that I actually twisted that raised area off of the little collar. Yesterday I tried to grip whatever was down there with a carbide stylus. Couldn't seem to grab on to anything that even felt like it was connected to the screw. This leads me to believe that there is just the little collar left on the screw, no flange left that could be possibly drilled and pinned. RATS! I may try some other approaches, but for now I am moving on. If I can get into the inside and somehow drill out a big hole, perhaps I could put a regular nut and epoxy it in place, levelling up the permanent part of the insole with epoxy or something.
Luckily, I got these shoes at a great price on clearance and had the foresight to purchase another pair. It is still frustrating, though, as the shoes themselves probably have years of life left in them.
Learn from my mistake and grease those threads.
Regards,
Raymond
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Old 09-26-01, 08:32 AM   #13
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Good to hear you got another pair on the go Rainman, but you're right, it is a pain when these things go wrong....

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Old 09-26-01, 09:51 AM   #14
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Rainman, you said there is an inside plate, if i want to change the cleats of my shoes, i can take the plate out, maybe you can too?

I have been thinking about a solution, but theres nothing you can do if you can`t acces the plate/ bolt, as the final thing you can cut the cleatscrew and try to push te left part trough.

Maybe this isn`t possible, i hope you can figure it out, and theres nothing wrong about mistakes, if you won`t make them, you won`t learn......

Goo luck with the project!
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Old 09-27-01, 02:13 AM   #15
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What kind of shoes are they?-Make? Model? How thick are the soles? Are they one type of material? Are there layers/ Different materials? How thick is the insole? Is it easily removed? I may be able to offer a solution.
Ride tightly screwed
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Did I say that?

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Old 09-27-01, 06:15 AM   #16
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Pat, I will try to give you the details as far as I can figure them out. The shoes are low end Shimano road shoes, model SH-R071. There is a removable insole that is not really part of the shoe. The sole itself appears to be a sandwich of two layers of the same material that I will call a hard plastic since I don't know exactly what it is. The inner layer of this, the permanent insole, if you will, is solid. That is, there are no holes except what is either a drain or ventilation hole way up front. This part does not appear to be removable at all. I assume the two layers are cemented together. I suppose it is possible that the insole could be pried out, but it does not look like it would be easy.

The cleat attachment mechanism appears to be a metal plate (not removable, Toolfreak) that has been punched up in appropriate places to form collars that have been threaded for cleat attachment. If you are familiar with what are called T-nuts you have the idea. In fact, one of my thoughts is to try to use a small T-nut from inside the shoe. What I think has happened is that I have twisted the frontmost collar right off the metal plate.

The T-nut idea is the best I have come up with so far. If I can get the broken piece out, I could just drill a hole all the way through and use a T-nut from inside the shoe.
What do you think, Pat?
Regards,
Raymond
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Old 09-27-01, 06:40 AM   #17
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Ray - could it be that LOOK cleats wear out more when off the bike coz they stick out so much?

My shoes are SPDs and they've lasted me years. They're made by Gaerne and they're a kind of touring shoe - intended to allow a bit of walking, so the cleat is inset from the shoe treads and doesn't make direct contact with the ground.

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Old 09-28-01, 06:03 AM   #18
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Stew,
Yeah, I am sure that is part of it. When you do walk on them all the wear is on the two back corners. I don't mind having to replace them. This problem was my fault for not using grease and not checking them for wear more often.
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Old 10-19-01, 09:41 AM   #19
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Raymond,
I'm fairly sure a T-nut will work, however as I think you know, you'll have to grind away some of the existing mounting plate so the T-nut will fit through the sole. Next time try some Sidis, you'll have more room for your toes and the "plates" are tougher/thicker.
Good Luck !!!
Ride Well
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Old 10-19-01, 12:11 PM   #20
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Thanks, Pat. The shoes are languishing in the garage until I work up the gumption to try something on them. No biggy since I have spares. One day I will get inspired and take a shot.
Regards,
Raymond
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