Rear Hub less than $100 for a Clydesdale?
#1
Destroyer of Wheels
Thread Starter
Rear Hub less than $100 for a Clydesdale?
What do Clydes need to worry about with rear hubs? Any good picks under $100 that should be fine for a 280# 6-1" Clydesdale? What do more expensive hubs really do? Is the rolling resistance different on mtb hubs than road hubs?
It'll be going on a Nishiki Sport that had 27" wheels (plenty of clearance for the brakes so going down to 700c shouldn't be a problem). I'd like to go with Shimano compatible, 36 holes up to 8 speed (but realize I could get different cassettes on with spacers). I'm using friction shifters so I'm not all that concerned with groups and types and so forth. I'll probably have Peter White or Harris Cyclery build up the wheel with DB spokes on Deep Vs since I've had wheel trouble all summer and really want to be done with it after this. I'm in NYC so while I don't go offroad with my roadie some of the roads are less than perfectly paved (mildly put!).
For example, how's the Tiagra 4500 vs the Shimano XT M-760 vs Shimano LX M-580 ? Is the XT really worth an extra $20, if so why? I know that the latter are mtb spacing (135) while I'm guessing I have 130 but found this this bit on dealing with that.
I took my friend's bike for a quick spin yesterday - he had 23mm tires on Deep Vs and Deore hubs with disc brakes. It felt like I was riding through pudding, lots of resistance which I thought was odd for skinny tires. (I was on my beater mtb with a shot rear hub and 2" tires so I should have felt like I was flying). Is that characteristic of mtb hubs - stronger but more resistance?
Backstory Threads:
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=253192 - First Roadie
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=262759 - Dialing in a Roadie
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=294905 - How many broken spokes are dangerous
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=298310 - Rear deraileur rubbing - bad tension?
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=342373 - Bombproof 27" Rims
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=349283 - Shot Rims and Clyde Recommendations?
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=349519 - Deep V vs Dyad vs Mavic Opens
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=352240 - Friction Shifters
Thanks - you guys have been so helpful as I work out this whole wheel thing, hopefully this'll be the last 'installment' of questions
It'll be going on a Nishiki Sport that had 27" wheels (plenty of clearance for the brakes so going down to 700c shouldn't be a problem). I'd like to go with Shimano compatible, 36 holes up to 8 speed (but realize I could get different cassettes on with spacers). I'm using friction shifters so I'm not all that concerned with groups and types and so forth. I'll probably have Peter White or Harris Cyclery build up the wheel with DB spokes on Deep Vs since I've had wheel trouble all summer and really want to be done with it after this. I'm in NYC so while I don't go offroad with my roadie some of the roads are less than perfectly paved (mildly put!).
For example, how's the Tiagra 4500 vs the Shimano XT M-760 vs Shimano LX M-580 ? Is the XT really worth an extra $20, if so why? I know that the latter are mtb spacing (135) while I'm guessing I have 130 but found this this bit on dealing with that.
I took my friend's bike for a quick spin yesterday - he had 23mm tires on Deep Vs and Deore hubs with disc brakes. It felt like I was riding through pudding, lots of resistance which I thought was odd for skinny tires. (I was on my beater mtb with a shot rear hub and 2" tires so I should have felt like I was flying). Is that characteristic of mtb hubs - stronger but more resistance?
Backstory Threads:
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=253192 - First Roadie
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=262759 - Dialing in a Roadie
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=294905 - How many broken spokes are dangerous
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=298310 - Rear deraileur rubbing - bad tension?
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=342373 - Bombproof 27" Rims
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=349283 - Shot Rims and Clyde Recommendations?
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=349519 - Deep V vs Dyad vs Mavic Opens
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=352240 - Friction Shifters
Thanks - you guys have been so helpful as I work out this whole wheel thing, hopefully this'll be the last 'installment' of questions
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#2
Making a kilometer blurry
Best value out there is a Tiagra, for $28. It's barely 5g heavier than an Ultegra rear, and it's available in 36h. If you want to really do it right, spend another $5 on new ball bearings for it out of the box, to get the full-hardness bearings.
A tandem hub would be cool too, if it could be re-spaced for your frame, or your frame cold-set for the hub. The Shimano HF08 is $115, and is a really stout hub.
A tandem hub would be cool too, if it could be re-spaced for your frame, or your frame cold-set for the hub. The Shimano HF08 is $115, and is a really stout hub.
#3
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I took my friend's bike for a quick spin yesterday - he had 23mm tires on Deep Vs and Deore hubs with disc brakes. It felt like I was riding through pudding, lots of resistance which I thought was odd for skinny tires. (I was on my beater mtb with a shot rear hub and 2" tires so I should have felt like I was flying). Is that characteristic of mtb hubs - stronger but more resistance?
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Basically, nothing. Hubs don't generally fail due to rider weight. Any good picks under $100 that should be fine for a 280# 6-1" Clydesdale?[/QUOTE]Any genuine Shimano hub will work fine for you. (By the way, your height has nothing to do with this issue.)
I do strongly advise staying away from off brand or "boutique" hubs. In my opinion, the only hubs that are better than Shimano are Phil Wood, which are super 'spensive.
More expensive Shimano hubs are typically a wee bit lighter, and may be slightly better sealed. However, even the bottom of the line Shimano models are better than anything else.
Where weight is an issue, I would advise going for one of the so-called "mountain" models due to the 135 mm spacing. This will make for a stronger wheel. When heavy riders have wheel trouble, it's generally spoke issues that end their rides early. 135 mm hubs use less asymmetry in dish, so the resulting wheels are significantly less likely to suffer spoke failures.
Basically, nothing. Hubs don't generally fail due to rider weight. Any good picks under $100 that should be fine for a 280# 6-1" Clydesdale?[/QUOTE]Any genuine Shimano hub will work fine for you. (By the way, your height has nothing to do with this issue.)
I do strongly advise staying away from off brand or "boutique" hubs. In my opinion, the only hubs that are better than Shimano are Phil Wood, which are super 'spensive.
Right. Don't pay any attention to the "n-speed" designation when buying a new hub. All current models work with any number of sprockets from 7 to 10 (excepting the silly Dura-Ace 10-speed version.)
No. Assuming the hub was properly adjusted, there should be no significant difference in frictional resistance.
If you search around the Web you'll find lots of folks ranking on the lower-end models, but some of this is driven by snobbery and ignorance, and some of it is driven by the fact that bike shops sometimes tend to skimp on assembly of lower end bikes, so the less expensive hubs are often supplied with incorrect cone adjustment.
The bike you rode may also have had a dragging brake...not uncommon with disc brakes.
Sheldon "It's The Tires, Not The Hubs" Brown
I do strongly advise staying away from off brand or "boutique" hubs. In my opinion, the only hubs that are better than Shimano are Phil Wood, which are super 'spensive.
Where weight is an issue, I would advise going for one of the so-called "mountain" models due to the 135 mm spacing. This will make for a stronger wheel. When heavy riders have wheel trouble, it's generally spoke issues that end their rides early. 135 mm hubs use less asymmetry in dish, so the resulting wheels are significantly less likely to suffer spoke failures.
Basically, nothing. Hubs don't generally fail due to rider weight. Any good picks under $100 that should be fine for a 280# 6-1" Clydesdale?[/QUOTE]Any genuine Shimano hub will work fine for you. (By the way, your height has nothing to do with this issue.)
I do strongly advise staying away from off brand or "boutique" hubs. In my opinion, the only hubs that are better than Shimano are Phil Wood, which are super 'spensive.
I took my friend's bike for a quick spin yesterday - he had 23mm tires on Deep Vs and Deore hubs with disc brakes. It felt like I was riding through pudding, lots of resistance which I thought was odd for skinny tires. (I was on my beater mtb with a shot rear hub and 2" tires so I should have felt like I was flying). Is that characteristic of mtb hubs - stronger but more resistance?
If you search around the Web you'll find lots of folks ranking on the lower-end models, but some of this is driven by snobbery and ignorance, and some of it is driven by the fact that bike shops sometimes tend to skimp on assembly of lower end bikes, so the less expensive hubs are often supplied with incorrect cone adjustment.
The bike you rode may also have had a dragging brake...not uncommon with disc brakes.
Sheldon "It's The Tires, Not The Hubs" Brown
#5
Destroyer of Wheels
Thread Starter
No, MTB hubs have very nearly the same smoothness as road hubs. Their seals may be a little tighter but the rolling resistance difference should be insignificant. I expect either your friend's bike has a serious mis-adjustment or you were in a much higher gear ratio and that's why it felt harder. Any chance his brakes were mis-aligned and dragging?
[Edit - I've read this page a dozen times over the last year before posting but never saw or I guess fully understood that one sentence where you said this - DoH! ]
Thanks for the replies!
-----------------------
One more question: a friend gave me a Campagnolo Record road hub (from the 70's - has the grease cover on it) with a tubular Fiamme rim. I'm thinking of using that hub and building (or having built) the the front wheel (also 36 spoke Deep Vs). I was pretty set on doing that until I read about the Tiagra - is this still a good idea or should I start with a new Tiagra instead?
Thanks again!
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Last edited by Air; 10-23-07 at 07:52 AM.
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One more question: a friend gave me a Campagnolo Record road hub (from the 70's - has the grease cover on it) with a tubular Fiamme rim. I'm thinking of using that hub and building (or having built) the the front wheel (also 36 spoke Deep Vs). I was pretty set on doing that until I read about the Tiagra - is this still a good idea or should I start with a new Tiagra instead?
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
However, you will probably find that buying a complete new wheel is less expensive than having an existing hub built up.
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Really? So even the high-buck hubs from Chris King, White Industries, Velocity, DT Swiss -- not an improvement over Shimano? That's very helpful to know -- I almost plunked down the long green for some King hubs, and thought I was compromising when I went with XT. Now I feel better (and strangely smarter, somehow). Thanks once again to the great bearded oracle of bicycle knowledge.
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Really? So even the high-buck hubs from Chris King, White Industries, Velocity, DT Swiss -- not an improvement over Shimano? That's very helpful to know -- I almost plunked down the long green for some King hubs, and thought I was compromising when I went with XT. Now I feel better (and strangely smarter, somehow). Thanks once again to the great bearded oracle of bicycle knowledge.
"ooohhh... but it has ceramic bearings!"
to which I say
"ooohhh... shiny!!"
#10
Making a kilometer blurry
Yeah, the only real argument is weight, as those White Ind F1s are some freaking light hubs. Then you go evaluate the benefit of light hubs, and it starts looking ******** again. Still, they are lighter, by 100% or more.
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And saving half the weight of a hub is virtually useless to us clydesdales... Do the expensive hubs even come drilled for 36 spokes?
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#12
Making a kilometer blurry
#13
Destroyer of Wheels
Thread Starter
The spinning mass of a light vs heavy hub wouldn't even matter all that much, would it?
I'll lose the 235 grams off my arse and spend the rest on beer, thank you very much
I'll lose the 235 grams off my arse and spend the rest on beer, thank you very much
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#15
Destroyer of Wheels
Thread Starter
Yup, think the Deep Vs are going to be bomb proof and I can go to narrower tires.
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#16
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If you just look at the specs, it makes the weight difference appear considerably greater than it really is.
It also makes the cost difference appear less than it really is, since you still have to buy a skewer to go with your boutique hub.
Shimano makes the best skewers in the world, and they come included with the hubs!
See also: https://sheldonbrown.com/qr
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FWIW heavier riders break wheels due to improper spoke tension and spokes breaking at the elbow 99% of the time. You are unlikely to damage the hub from just riding it or even abuse offroad until you've nearly rebuilt the wheel's worth of spokes.
I would suggest straight 14ga spokes, get a good spoke to begin with (DT, Wheelsmith, Phil Wood), and IMHO, any hub with STRAIGHT PULL spokes is going to potentially result in a much more durable wheel.
In the past 6 or 7 years of my more serious cycling, through about 6 wheel sets, wheels I built, factory built, etc. the only wheels that didn't break spokes regularly were those without elbows in the spokes. I have broken exactly one elbowless spoke in this time period, and probably 30 or more regular spokes.
Given that, I think the benefits of a hub that accommodates straight pull spokes far outweighs whatever factors in hub weight, durability etc. may be present, for heavier riders.
I would suggest straight 14ga spokes, get a good spoke to begin with (DT, Wheelsmith, Phil Wood), and IMHO, any hub with STRAIGHT PULL spokes is going to potentially result in a much more durable wheel.
In the past 6 or 7 years of my more serious cycling, through about 6 wheel sets, wheels I built, factory built, etc. the only wheels that didn't break spokes regularly were those without elbows in the spokes. I have broken exactly one elbowless spoke in this time period, and probably 30 or more regular spokes.
Given that, I think the benefits of a hub that accommodates straight pull spokes far outweighs whatever factors in hub weight, durability etc. may be present, for heavier riders.
#18
Making a kilometer blurry
Be careful...it's easy to get fooled. Boutique hubs are generally supplied (and weighed!) without skewers, while Shimano hubs include the skewers!
If you just look at the specs, it makes the weight difference appear considerably greater than it really is.
It also makes the cost difference appear less than it really is, since you still have to buy a skewer to go with your boutique hub.
Shimano makes the best skewers in the world, and they come included with the hubs!
See also: https://sheldonbrown.com/qr
Sheldon "Don't Get Skewered By Deceptive Marketing" Brown
If you just look at the specs, it makes the weight difference appear considerably greater than it really is.
It also makes the cost difference appear less than it really is, since you still have to buy a skewer to go with your boutique hub.
Shimano makes the best skewers in the world, and they come included with the hubs!
See also: https://sheldonbrown.com/qr
Sheldon "Don't Get Skewered By Deceptive Marketing" Brown
And I'll never use a skewer other than a Shimano Of course, I only have Shimano hubs at this point.
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They may be good skewers, but I use bolt-on skewers almost exclusively, and mostly special-keyed, to lessen the likelyhood of theft. Or was it likelihood...
#21
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Too bad most aren't going to stop a determined professional thief. They should use security torx sockets instead of simply hex.
And the outer collar should be floating so that it rotates freely if a visegrip is applied.
Speaking of skewers, has any company thought of the idea of making the skewer lever double as a tire iron?
I know one company made their seatpost binder into a tire iron.
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I've seen bolt on wheels stolen as well as quick release. QR has the added benefit of being able to take off your front and lock it with a U lock through the rear wheel inside the rear triangle of the frame, where as you need a wrench to accomplish the same task with the security torx (which are easily defeated by vice grips) or bolt on.
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I have no opinion on king hubs myself, far too poor, I'm just curious.
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FWIW heavier riders break wheels due to improper spoke tension and spokes breaking at the elbow 99% of the time. You are unlikely to damage the hub from just riding it or even abuse offroad until you've nearly rebuilt the wheel's worth of spokes.
I would suggest straight 14ga spokes, get a good spoke to begin with (DT, Wheelsmith, Phil Wood), and IMHO, any hub with STRAIGHT PULL spokes is going to potentially result in a much more durable wheel.
In the past 6 or 7 years of my more serious cycling, through about 6 wheel sets, wheels I built, factory built, etc. the only wheels that didn't break spokes regularly were those without elbows in the spokes. I have broken exactly one elbowless spoke in this time period, and probably 30 or more regular spokes.
Given that, I think the benefits of a hub that accommodates straight pull spokes far outweighs whatever factors in hub weight, durability etc. may be present, for heavier riders.
I would suggest straight 14ga spokes, get a good spoke to begin with (DT, Wheelsmith, Phil Wood), and IMHO, any hub with STRAIGHT PULL spokes is going to potentially result in a much more durable wheel.
In the past 6 or 7 years of my more serious cycling, through about 6 wheel sets, wheels I built, factory built, etc. the only wheels that didn't break spokes regularly were those without elbows in the spokes. I have broken exactly one elbowless spoke in this time period, and probably 30 or more regular spokes.
Given that, I think the benefits of a hub that accommodates straight pull spokes far outweighs whatever factors in hub weight, durability etc. may be present, for heavier riders.
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The King hubs sound like a swarm of angry bees.