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Old 10-22-07, 04:48 PM   #1
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What to to "NIB" Park Tool truing stand bought off eBay?

So I won the bid on this TS-2 truing stand for $125. Shipping was another $50, so I'm into this thing for $175. It was advertised on ebay as NIB by a seller with 99.8% positive feedback and 650 feedback responses. Below I have linked to pics I took of it within an hour of it arriving at my house and taking it out of the box. The pics are kind of large, so those of you with dial-up have been warned. The stand doesn't look used, but it seems that it was probably stored for a while in a damp environment. Unfortunately, many of the fasteners, joints, and rubbing parts are corroded/rusted. So, does it fit the definition of "New in Box" because it is "unused" and in the original box? Obviously it is not in "New" condition, but it is probably unused. I have contacted the seller and she deciding what to do about it. I have also sent her these pics, but she has yet to respond to them.

For those of you with more ebay experience than I: if she does not cooperate, can I perform a chargeback? What if I contact Paypal? Any insight you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7997/img4382dp2.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6756/img4383ni1.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1238/img4384vy1.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3353/img4385rq5.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5286/img4386ri8.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6203/img4387ax4.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6007/img4388rc8.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4504/img4389qn5.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2475/img4391zs8.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8307/img4392jd3.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7292/img4393gm8.jpg
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Old 10-22-07, 05:13 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by change View Post
So I won the bid on this TS-2 truing stand for $125. Shipping was another $50, so I'm into this thing for $175. It was advertised on ebay as NIB by a seller with 99.8% positive feedback and 650 feedback responses. Below I have linked to pics I took of it within an hour of it arriving at my house and taking it out of the box. The pics are kind of large, so those of you with dial-up have been warned. The stand doesn't look used, but it seems that it was probably stored for a while in a damp environment. Unfortunately, many of the fasteners, joints, and rubbing parts are corroded/rusted. So, does it fit the definition of "New in Box" because it is "unused" and in the original box? Obviously it is not in "New" condition, but it is probably unused. I have contacted the seller and she deciding what to do about it. I have also sent her these pics, but she has yet to respond to them.

For those of you with more ebay experience than I: if she does not cooperate, can I perform a chargeback? What if I contact Paypal? Any insight you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7997/img4382dp2.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6756/img4383ni1.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1238/img4384vy1.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3353/img4385rq5.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5286/img4386ri8.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6203/img4387ax4.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6007/img4388rc8.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4504/img4389qn5.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2475/img4391zs8.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8307/img4392jd3.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7292/img4393gm8.jpg
if the seller does not make it right file a complaint with paypal and they will probably rule in your favor. also file a complaint with ebay.

i suspect the seller will make it right tho .

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Old 10-22-07, 05:15 PM   #3
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I don't see anything that is more than cosmetic damage. IOW, it should perform flawlessly just like a new one. But there are cosmetic defects and this should have been noted in the auction. Contact the seller and nicely ask him what he will do to work with you.

Best case senario, you get a kick ass truing stand for even less money. Worst, case if he digs in......................welcome to ebay. It's a risk. You can give him negative feedback but he will zap you with the same. Neither of you win. Again, it's a calculated risk of doing business on ebay.
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Old 10-22-07, 05:15 PM   #4
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So I won the bid on this TS-2 truing stand for $125. Shipping was another $50, so I'm into this thing for $175. It was advertised on ebay as NIB by a seller with 99.8% positive feedback and 650 feedback responses. Below I have linked to pics I took of it within an hour of it arriving at my house and taking it out of the box. The pics are kind of large, so those of you with dial-up have been warned. The stand doesn't look used, but it seems that it was probably stored for a while in a damp environment. Unfortunately, many of the fasteners, joints, and rubbing parts are corroded/rusted. So, does it fit the definition of "New in Box" because it is "unused" and in the original box? Obviously it is not in "New" condition, but it is probably unused. I have contacted the seller and she deciding what to do about it. I have also sent her these pics, but she has yet to respond to them.

For those of you with more ebay experience than I: if she does not cooperate, can I perform a chargeback? What if I contact Paypal? Any insight you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
The old hindsight stuff regarding getting more info before you buy, but that does not help you now. On a different note, $50 shipping!! That is insane. You need to factor that into your bid price next time. Considering you could have had a dealer with great a rep deliver to you for $182 (Lickbike), you really got yourself a crappy deal. Up to you to decide what you want to do. If the seller does agree to take it back, you may end up being responsible for shipping. Then you'll be pissed when you pay the $12 shipping charge at your PO and realize the seller just cleared $38 from you. You'll maybe then buy it from Lickbike and take it as a $60 lesson. You'll have to decide what you want to do. It is unlikely the seller will offer any sort of discount. There is always hope though.

I am going through a somewhat similar situation. I saw something too late to ask detailed questions and I got burned. It will be a $10 lesson for me .

I prefer the knowledgable sellers over the powersellers with an index of widget prices. I have gotten more accurate representations of the items that way.

Good luck with it. I hope in a year or two you'll forget about the hassle and enjoy a great wheelbuilding stand.
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Old 10-22-07, 05:21 PM   #5
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- wow... could have bought a new TS-2 from Lickbike for $164 + shipping, nashbar for $161 + 10% off, or aebike for $165...

- man, i'd be really disappointed...

EDIT: i see the previous poster has noted Lickbike... if it's any help, take comfort in sharing a valuable (and possibly expensive) lesson... (i stopped using eBay years ago)
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Old 10-22-07, 05:27 PM   #6
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Flood salvage?
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Old 10-22-07, 05:48 PM   #7
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Flood salvage?
I don't think so. The box shows no sign of water damage, but then again, it may not have been in the box at the time it got wet. It came from Michigan, so I'm suspecting it was in someone's damp basement for a couple of winters.
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Old 10-22-07, 05:50 PM   #8
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Look. You got a bad deal. A lot of it is your own fault. Try and make the most of it, by getting some of your money back for "damage." YOu know...the whole lemonade out of lemons deal?
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Old 10-22-07, 05:51 PM   #9
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Ebay = A pig in a poke.
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Old 10-22-07, 05:53 PM   #10
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Ebay = A pig in a poke.
In the worst cases. This case has the additional feature of a bad price to start with. The normal lure of ebay is getting a better price than elsewhere. That didn't even happen here.

So calling it a "pig in a poke" is probably not appropriate in this case.
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Old 10-22-07, 05:56 PM   #11
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The pics are kind of large, so those of you with dial-up have been warned.
Yeah, they load slow as hell on dialup. The file sizes must be well over 800kb, right?,,,,BD
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Old 10-22-07, 05:57 PM   #12
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- wow... could have bought a new TS-2 from Lickbike for $164 + shipping, nashbar for $161 + 10% off, or aebike for $165...

- man, i'd be really disappointed...

EDIT: i see the previous poster has noted Lickbike... if it's any help, take comfort in sharing a valuable (and possibly expensive) lesson... (i stopped using eBay years ago)
I live in Hawaii, guys, and all the companies you mentioned LOVE to add on extra charges for sending something to HI&AK. No such thing as surface shipping to Hawaii. From any of the businesses you listed, the price including shipping would have been easily over $200. So I tried to save $25 bucks by going through ebay - and I ended up getting bit. Other than this one, I've had nothing but good experiences buying the dozen or so items I've bought off ebay recently. This was intended to be a discussion about the stand, ebay, and what my options are from here. Lay off on the "you got SSSSSSOOOOOOOOO ripped off!" BS.
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Old 10-22-07, 05:58 PM   #13
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In the worst cases. This case has the additional feature of a bad price to start with. The normal lure of ebay is getting a better price than elsewhere. That didn't even happen here.

So calling it a
"pig in a poke" is probably not appropriate in this case.
I don't know what that means. But I've had good luck on Ebay. I go there to find used items, not new. I actually saw a guy selling Forte tires on there for $9 each plus $7 shipping. Performance had them for $6.

Anyway, Ebay good for used items, but you are taking a huge risk, no doubt.
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Old 10-22-07, 07:20 PM   #14
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I live in Hawaii, guys, and all the companies you mentioned LOVE to add on extra charges for sending something to HI&AK. No such thing as surface shipping to Hawaii. From any of the businesses you listed, the price including shipping would have been easily over $200. So I tried to save $25 bucks by going through ebay - and I ended up getting bit. Other than this one, I've had nothing but good experiences buying the dozen or so items I've bought off ebay recently. This was intended to be a discussion about the stand, ebay, and what my options are from here. Lay off on the "you got SSSSSSOOOOOOOOO ripped off!" BS.
I don't think you are in that bad of shape as long as the stand works properly. After all, you bought it to true wheels, not to look purdy.
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Old 10-22-07, 07:29 PM   #15
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I live in Hawaii, guys, and all the companies you mentioned LOVE to add on extra charges for sending something to HI&AK. No such thing as surface shipping to Hawaii. From any of the businesses you listed, the price including shipping would have been easily over $200. So I tried to save $25 bucks by going through ebay - and I ended up getting bit. Other than this one, I've had nothing but good experiences buying the dozen or so items I've bought off ebay recently. This was intended to be a discussion about the stand, ebay, and what my options are from here. Lay off on the "you got SSSSSSOOOOOOOOO ripped off!" BS.
You would just have to wait up to 30 days for Nashbar. High Price but lube it an use it.
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Old 10-22-07, 07:32 PM   #16
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I live in Hawaii, guys, and all the companies you mentioned LOVE to add on extra charges for sending something to HI&AK. No such thing as surface shipping to Hawaii. From any of the businesses you listed, the price including shipping would have been easily over $200. So I tried to save $25 bucks by going through ebay - and I ended up getting bit. Other than this one, I've had nothing but good experiences buying the dozen or so items I've bought off ebay recently. This was intended to be a discussion about the stand, ebay, and what my options are from here. Lay off on the "you got SSSSSSOOOOOOOOO ripped off!" BS.
Don't take the comments personally. I usually make my comments for the OP but also for any others that might read. Hopefully what is written will help others. Without the knowledge of shipping charges, most comments were good.

I did look up the postal rates for DC to Hawaii, 10lbs. and this is what I got:

Mailing Services Speed Price
Express MailŪ Overnight to most areas $45.25
Priority MailŪ 3 days 25.05
Priority MailŪ Flat Rate Box 3 days 8.95
Parcel PostŪ Unable to determine 16.17
Media MailŪ Unable to determine 5.19

I am not arguing the realities of the shipping, just reprinting quoted rates.

The corrosion does not appear that bad, at least it does not look like it will affect the functionality if you get it cleaned, lubed and used a bit. Write back with the resolution, even if you decide to do nothing.
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Old 10-22-07, 07:59 PM   #17
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I think a refund of $25 would be appropriate for the corrosion (ask for $50). Take the stand apart and clean and lube it and use it. Shipping this back to the seller would be a total hassle (just thinking personally here). I refunded a buyer $100 on a $600 frame because of unnoticed paint chips on my part.

And yes, all the ribbing you're getting for what you paid for shipping is unnecessary.

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Old 10-22-07, 08:07 PM   #18
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I think a refund of $25 would be appropriate for the corrosion (ask for $50). Take the stand apart and clean and lube it and use it. Shipping this back to the seller would be a total hassle (just thinking personally here). I refunded a buyer $100 on a $600 frame because of unnoticed paint chips on my part.

And yes, all the ribbing you're getting for what you paid for shipping is unnecessary.

Scott
+1, ask for your shipping cost back and a little effort on your part and you should be in good shape.
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Old 10-22-07, 08:54 PM   #19
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Ignore all the second guessing and judgmental BS that doesn't answer your question. In my experience, your best bet, as others have mentioned, is to simply contact the seller and see what they'll do. If you can come to a decent understanding that makes sense for both involved, great. If not, re-read the ebay and paypal fine print, understand the extent of your recourse, and then decide if the amount of money involved is worth the hassle and potential ding your feedback could take. So far I've been on both ends of a bad transaction(some my fault, some not), and my feedback is intact and I haven't lost any money...thanks to simple, non-emotional communication. There's a decent chance you'll be able to work something out. Good luck!
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Old 10-22-07, 09:10 PM   #20
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A little clean-up and TLC and the corrosion will be a thing of the past.

BTW, I agree with the others that suggest that you have the seller refund you some $$ for not inspecting/disclosing the rusty bits, but I wouldn't go through the hassle of packing it up and shipping it back.
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Old 10-22-07, 09:21 PM   #21
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Ignore all the second guessing and judgmental BS that doesn't answer your question. In my experience, your best bet, as others have mentioned, is to simply contact the seller and see what they'll do. If you can come to a decent understanding that makes sense for both involved, great. If not, re-read the ebay and paypal fine print, understand the extent of your recourse, and then decide if the amount of money involved is worth the hassle and potential ding your feedback could take. So far I've been on both ends of a bad transaction(some my fault, some not), and my feedback is intact and I haven't lost any money...thanks to simple, non-emotional communication. There's a decent chance you'll be able to work something out. Good luck!
I agree with this person 100% Just contact the seller. Send the pics and ask for your money back. Paypal and/or eBay have ways of settling conflicts. Were there any pics of the stand in the auction? Always ask for photos if you are serious about a purchase on eBay. Most sellers (and buyers) are honest and the person may never have really looked at the stand.
Worst cast you can clean up the stand and use it. It is a great stand. I have one and have built up many wheels on that stand.
I haven't had a problem deal on eBay that wasn't resolved amicably. Good luck.
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Old 10-22-07, 11:33 PM   #22
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I agree with this person 100% Just contact the seller. Send the pics and ask for your money back. Paypal and/or eBay have ways of settling conflicts. Were there any pics of the stand in the auction? Always ask for photos if you are serious about a purchase on eBay. Most sellers (and buyers) are honest and the person may never have really looked at the stand.
Worst cast you can clean up the stand and use it. It is a great stand. I have one and have built up many wheels on that stand.
I haven't had a problem deal on eBay that wasn't resolved amicably. Good luck.
Yes, there were two photos of the stand in the ebay ad. They were not of nearly the same quality and closeness of the ones I took, of course. In the photos none of the rust was visible.
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Old 10-23-07, 01:26 AM   #23
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Yes, there were two photos of the stand in the ebay ad. They were not of nearly the same quality and closeness of the ones I took, of course. In the photos none of the rust was visible.
See if you can get some credit for the rusty condition. Even with the rust the stand will function as well as any other TS-2.

BTW, I used to live in Hawaii (Kona). If you've been there any amount of time, you already know that this stand will get that much rust in a year or two, anyway. Keep up as best you can with WD40 or whatever.
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Old 10-23-07, 05:35 AM   #24
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Link to auction?
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Old 10-23-07, 06:09 AM   #25
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File a claim through ebay that is was "not as described." I've done this before. Then file though paypal. If you win, they will refund part or all of your money. Paypal generally keeps some of the money to cover there hassle. I filed a claim on a 1K bike that came with different parts than listed. Paypal kept $25 of my refund. But, I got several 100 refunded to me.
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