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Old 11-21-07, 08:40 AM   #1
George
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Truing wheels

just trued my first wheels and I'm pretty close to .610 on the laterial and I was wondering what is the tolerance used on this. Thanks for any replys.
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Old 11-21-07, 09:00 AM   #2
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I try to get to about .5 mm on my wheels.

From the Park Website:
Wheel is adequately trued for round when the deviation from the low spot to the highest spot is about 1/32 of an inch (about 0.5mm)
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Old 11-21-07, 09:22 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply blamp. I should have thought about it when I asked the question, how far can I be off. Anyhow I'll play with them a little more. The first time I did it I left the air in the tires, but I'm learning a new hobby, thank again.
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Old 11-21-07, 10:28 AM   #4
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Don't fixate on hundredths of a millimeter! Anything within a mm is close enough. Measure the run-out of the rear, go out and ride it around the block and I guarantee you it will be off by at least .5mm'

Stressing is the most important and most overlooked part of truing. After you think you are done, put the wheel on the ground, stand on one side and very gently and progressively apply pressure to the other side of the rim with your other foot until it just begins to flex. You will hear pings and pops. Rotate 90 degress and repeat then flip and do the other side. Put it back in the stand and retrue. After a few repetitions of this, you can stand on the wheel and the lateral true won't change appreciably. Now you've got a wheel that will stay in true for a long time.
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Old 11-21-07, 10:58 AM   #5
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+1. It's maddening work; 0.01 mm is not worth the headache.
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Old 11-21-07, 11:26 AM   #6
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Radial truing and dishing require more skill than lateral truing, get those right first.

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Old 11-21-07, 11:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by San Rensho View Post
Don't fixate on hundredths of a millimeter! Anything within a mm is close enough. Measure the run-out of the rear, go out and ride it around the block and I guarantee you it will be off by at least .5mm'

Stressing is the most important and most overlooked part of truing. After you think you are done, put the wheel on the ground, stand on one side and very gently and progressively apply pressure to the other side of the rim with your other foot until it just begins to flex. You will hear pings and pops. Rotate 90 degress and repeat then flip and do the other side. Put it back in the stand and retrue. After a few repetitions of this, you can stand on the wheel and the lateral true won't change appreciably. Now you've got a wheel that will stay in true for a long time.
+1 on stressing/stress relieving. I don't do it on the ground like San Rensho, I have a wooden stool in the shop with a hole for the axle in the middle of the seat, same thing - I apply gentle pressure, then turn 90deg. and so on, then flip wheel over and do the other side. While it's in the stand I also go around the wheel and squeeze spokes together real hard (at least until they're digging into your hands good).

Also for stress relieving, when you're doing a new wheel build, use the plastic handle end of a screwdriver and, while in the stand, push on the spoke crossings all around.

Sidenote: I once met a husband and wife team who built wheels as a living, wheelbuilding was ALL they did. Well, I work as a carpenter and I have rough calloused hands, but these folks' were totally unbelievable.
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Old 11-21-07, 12:29 PM   #8
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Man, and I thought I was done thanks for the replys guys and have a nice Thanksgiving
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Old 11-21-07, 01:01 PM   #9
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It's all about spoke tension. Getting a wheel true with uneven tension will cause it to go out of true very quickly.
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Old 11-21-07, 02:29 PM   #10
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I have cheap wheel that is bent or out of balance. Would it be possible to straighten it out with the old spokes? I like to play around with it to get a feel for truing a wheel, but I don't want to beat my head against a wall either.
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Old 11-21-07, 02:38 PM   #11
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It's all about spoke tension. Getting a wheel true with uneven tension will cause it to go out of true very quickly.
+1 Even tension is the key.
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Old 11-21-07, 02:43 PM   #12
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I have cheap wheel that is bent or out of balance. Would it be possible to straighten it out with the old spokes? I like to play around with it to get a feel for truing a wheel, but I don't want to beat my head against a wall either.
Possible? Maybe but usually not worth it. In general, if the wheel is less than 1/8" out of true when laid flat on a table, it can be straightened without too much variation in the tension. Since there is no way to know this without completely disassembling the wheel, it is usually less trouble with a "cheap" wheel to just replace it. You have nothing to loose by trying to just true it and tension it as it sits and use it as a learning tool though. Go for it. You will gain some experience and perhaps a decent and ride-able wheel along with some pride in the work. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
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Old 11-21-07, 03:21 PM   #13
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I don't have a spoke tensioner so I plucked it with my finger and they all sound pretty much the same. Do you think I should get a tensioner?
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Old 11-21-07, 03:34 PM   #14
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I use one as a backup now. I have gotten pretty good at doing it by feel but I still like to check myself and get the tension very closely matched. They're often on sale for $50-$60. I figure After a couple of builds, it has paid for itself.
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Old 11-21-07, 03:48 PM   #15
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how does the process work when using a tensiometer? Do you just decide on a good amout of tourque for the specific side of the wheel and then simply adjust the spokes to it?
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Old 11-21-07, 04:30 PM   #16
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Rims have published tension specifications. Generally speaking 100 - 120 kgf (kilograms of force) for drive side rear and both sides on the front. Look at the chart Park provides to get an idea. Scroll to the bottom.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=128
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Old 11-21-07, 04:37 PM   #17
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After 5 pairs of successfully built wheels without a tensioner (they didn't exist back then), I say one isn't necessary if you don't plan to be building wheels often.
Develop a feel and ear for properly tensioned spokes.
Take the time to learn to build wheels. It's initially laborious, but the concentration, and effort is well worth the end product. Most rewarding to have a precisely built wheelset of your own.
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Old 11-21-07, 05:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I don't have a spoke tensioner so I plucked it with my finger and they all sound pretty much the same. Do you think I should get a tensioner?
Also, if you pluck it with the tire off it will 'ring' better. I think plucking is an acceptable test for even tensioning. I've built probably 20 wheels and never used a tension meter. What I HAVE done along the way is to compare tension to a wheel that I know is good (has some miles on it and is fairly true), and that has given me a decent feel for adequate tension. That said, a tension meter would certain help, not hinder, my wheelbuilding.
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Old 11-21-07, 06:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I don't have a spoke tensioner so I plucked it with my finger and they all sound pretty much the same. Do you think I should get a tensioner?
At about $55 the Park TM-1 tension meter is a very good investment. It will give very consistent results if you release it onto the spokes gently. A quick release causes an elastic rebound and inconsistent results.

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Old 11-21-07, 06:36 PM   #20
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Thanks guys and I will get a tension meter, but I could really tell the difference just plucking.I was just thinking a little more about it and I think when everything sounds just right and lines up it would probably be a good idea to equal the tension on all the spokes. I was thinking about going with the tension that was close to all the spokes and making them all the same. I have the Mavic spokes on an Open Sport wheel, so I'll probably have to get a hold of them to see what's right.
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Old 11-21-07, 06:40 PM   #21
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Sounds good, George.

Don't forget that the tension on the drive side of your rear wheel will be higher than that of the non-drive side due to dish offset.
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Old 11-21-07, 07:06 PM   #22
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Thanks guys and I will get a tension meter, but I could really tell the difference just plucking.I was just thinking a little more about it and I think when everything sounds just right and lines up it would probably be a good idea to equal the tension on all the spokes. I was thinking about going with the tension that was close to all the spokes and making them all the same. I have the Mavic spokes on an Open Sport wheel, so I'll probably have to get a hold of them to see what's right.
Hey George, I spoke to Mavic not long ago about several of their rims and the recommended tension, with the Open Pro being one of the rims I asked about. The Mavic tech guy said 105-110 kgf would be the correct tension for that rim, for the drive-side rear spokes. Just follow the directions that come with the tension meter to convert the numbers on the tension meter to meaningful kgf numbers. A conversion table and instructions come with the tension meter. I got a Park TM-1 tension meter recently, it's quickly become one of my favorite tools.

Btw, you'll never get all the spokes absolutely identically tensioned and have the wheel true and round, but having the tension meter allows you to put meaningful numbers to the tension, and that allows you to fairly easily make sure your average tension is correct, as well as making sure that all the spokes are within a certain range of tension. Again, it's all explained in the TM-1 instructions. Good luck-
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Old 11-21-07, 08:07 PM   #23
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Thanks well biked, I wonder if that same tension would be for the drive side as well. Also, that is the tension meter I was thinking about getting, the TM-1, now I have to find one for the right price.
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Old 11-21-07, 08:20 PM   #24
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Thanks well biked, I wonder if that same tension would be for the drive side as well.
Yes, the 105-110 kgf tension the Mavic tech guy gave me is the max. recommended tension for the rims, which will be for the spokes on the rear drive side. The non-drive side rear spokes will be significantly less when the wheel is proplerly dished. For the front spokes, I tension them a little less than the drive side rear. The published recommended max. spoke tension for those rims is about 90-110 kgf I believe. But for drive side rear, you need to be up near the 110 kgf figure in my opinion.
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Old 11-21-07, 08:39 PM   #25
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I just seen a new TM-1 on e-bay for 52.95, that's a great deal, but I'm not to crazy about e-bay.
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