Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: Truing wheels

  1. #1
    Senior Member George's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Katy Texas
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix - Look 566 - Jamis Coda Elite
    Posts
    5,260
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Truing wheels

    just trued my first wheels and I'm pretty close to .610 on the laterial and I was wondering what is the tolerance used on this. Thanks for any replys.
    George

  2. #2
    Bikaholic blamp28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western, Michigan
    My Bikes
    Trek Fuel 90, Giant OCR, Rans Screamer Tandem
    Posts
    1,467
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I try to get to about .5 mm on my wheels.

    From the Park Website:
    Wheel is adequately trued for round when the deviation from the low spot to the highest spot is about 1/32 of an inch (about 0.5mm)
    Trek Fuel XC MTB, Giant OCR Road Bike, Rans Screamer - Tandem

  3. #3
    Senior Member George's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Katy Texas
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix - Look 566 - Jamis Coda Elite
    Posts
    5,260
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the reply blamp. I should have thought about it when I asked the question, how far can I be off. Anyhow I'll play with them a little more. The first time I did it I left the air in the tires, but I'm learning a new hobby, thank again.
    George

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,427
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Don't fixate on hundredths of a millimeter! Anything within a mm is close enough. Measure the run-out of the rear, go out and ride it around the block and I guarantee you it will be off by at least .5mm'

    Stressing is the most important and most overlooked part of truing. After you think you are done, put the wheel on the ground, stand on one side and very gently and progressively apply pressure to the other side of the rim with your other foot until it just begins to flex. You will hear pings and pops. Rotate 90 degress and repeat then flip and do the other side. Put it back in the stand and retrue. After a few repetitions of this, you can stand on the wheel and the lateral true won't change appreciably. Now you've got a wheel that will stay in true for a long time.
    Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

    1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
    1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
    1988 Ducati 750 F1

  5. #5
    Your mom
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,546
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    +1. It's maddening work; 0.01 mm is not worth the headache.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,093
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Radial truing and dishing require more skill than lateral truing, get those right first.

    Al

  7. #7
    use your best eye kenhill3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Olympia, Washington
    My Bikes
    '75 Bertin, '93 Parkpre Team 925, '04 Kona King Kikapu, '05 Bianchi Vigorelli
    Posts
    3,054
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by San Rensho View Post
    Don't fixate on hundredths of a millimeter! Anything within a mm is close enough. Measure the run-out of the rear, go out and ride it around the block and I guarantee you it will be off by at least .5mm'

    Stressing is the most important and most overlooked part of truing. After you think you are done, put the wheel on the ground, stand on one side and very gently and progressively apply pressure to the other side of the rim with your other foot until it just begins to flex. You will hear pings and pops. Rotate 90 degress and repeat then flip and do the other side. Put it back in the stand and retrue. After a few repetitions of this, you can stand on the wheel and the lateral true won't change appreciably. Now you've got a wheel that will stay in true for a long time.
    +1 on stressing/stress relieving. I don't do it on the ground like San Rensho, I have a wooden stool in the shop with a hole for the axle in the middle of the seat, same thing - I apply gentle pressure, then turn 90deg. and so on, then flip wheel over and do the other side. While it's in the stand I also go around the wheel and squeeze spokes together real hard (at least until they're digging into your hands good).

    Also for stress relieving, when you're doing a new wheel build, use the plastic handle end of a screwdriver and, while in the stand, push on the spoke crossings all around.

    Sidenote: I once met a husband and wife team who built wheels as a living, wheelbuilding was ALL they did. Well, I work as a carpenter and I have rough calloused hands, but these folks' were totally unbelievable.
    "I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." - Kurt Vonnegut jr.

  8. #8
    Senior Member George's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Katy Texas
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix - Look 566 - Jamis Coda Elite
    Posts
    5,260
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Man, and I thought I was done thanks for the replys guys and have a nice Thanksgiving
    George

  9. #9
    Senior Member capwater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Quahog, RI
    My Bikes
    Giant TCR Comps, Cdale R5000, Klein Q-Pro, Litespeed Siena, Piasano 105, Redline Conquest Pro, Voodoo Bizango, Fuji Aloha
    Posts
    1,509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's all about spoke tension. Getting a wheel true with uneven tension will cause it to go out of true very quickly.

  10. #10
    Senior Member dbikingman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Spokane/Tri-Cities WA
    My Bikes
    mountain bike, road bike
    Posts
    1,316
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have cheap wheel that is bent or out of balance. Would it be possible to straighten it out with the old spokes? I like to play around with it to get a feel for truing a wheel, but I don't want to beat my head against a wall either.

  11. #11
    Bikaholic blamp28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western, Michigan
    My Bikes
    Trek Fuel 90, Giant OCR, Rans Screamer Tandem
    Posts
    1,467
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by capwater View Post
    It's all about spoke tension. Getting a wheel true with uneven tension will cause it to go out of true very quickly.
    +1 Even tension is the key.
    Trek Fuel XC MTB, Giant OCR Road Bike, Rans Screamer - Tandem

  12. #12
    Bikaholic blamp28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western, Michigan
    My Bikes
    Trek Fuel 90, Giant OCR, Rans Screamer Tandem
    Posts
    1,467
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dbikingman View Post
    I have cheap wheel that is bent or out of balance. Would it be possible to straighten it out with the old spokes? I like to play around with it to get a feel for truing a wheel, but I don't want to beat my head against a wall either.
    Possible? Maybe but usually not worth it. In general, if the wheel is less than 1/8" out of true when laid flat on a table, it can be straightened without too much variation in the tension. Since there is no way to know this without completely disassembling the wheel, it is usually less trouble with a "cheap" wheel to just replace it. You have nothing to loose by trying to just true it and tension it as it sits and use it as a learning tool though. Go for it. You will gain some experience and perhaps a decent and ride-able wheel along with some pride in the work. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
    Trek Fuel XC MTB, Giant OCR Road Bike, Rans Screamer - Tandem

  13. #13
    Senior Member George's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Katy Texas
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix - Look 566 - Jamis Coda Elite
    Posts
    5,260
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't have a spoke tensioner so I plucked it with my finger and they all sound pretty much the same. Do you think I should get a tensioner?
    George

  14. #14
    Bikaholic blamp28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western, Michigan
    My Bikes
    Trek Fuel 90, Giant OCR, Rans Screamer Tandem
    Posts
    1,467
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I use one as a backup now. I have gotten pretty good at doing it by feel but I still like to check myself and get the tension very closely matched. They're often on sale for $50-$60. I figure After a couple of builds, it has paid for itself.
    Trek Fuel XC MTB, Giant OCR Road Bike, Rans Screamer - Tandem

  15. #15
    scourge of the motorists
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    white plains, NY
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    how does the process work when using a tensiometer? Do you just decide on a good amout of tourque for the specific side of the wheel and then simply adjust the spokes to it?

  16. #16
    Bikaholic blamp28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western, Michigan
    My Bikes
    Trek Fuel 90, Giant OCR, Rans Screamer Tandem
    Posts
    1,467
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rims have published tension specifications. Generally speaking 100 - 120 kgf (kilograms of force) for drive side rear and both sides on the front. Look at the chart Park provides to get an idea. Scroll to the bottom.

    http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=128
    Trek Fuel XC MTB, Giant OCR Road Bike, Rans Screamer - Tandem

  17. #17
    WNG
    WNG is offline
    Spin Forest! Spin! WNG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Arrid Zone-a
    My Bikes
    I used to have many. And I Will again.
    Posts
    5,906
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    After 5 pairs of successfully built wheels without a tensioner (they didn't exist back then), I say one isn't necessary if you don't plan to be building wheels often.
    Develop a feel and ear for properly tensioned spokes.
    Take the time to learn to build wheels. It's initially laborious, but the concentration, and effort is well worth the end product. Most rewarding to have a precisely built wheelset of your own.

  18. #18
    use your best eye kenhill3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Olympia, Washington
    My Bikes
    '75 Bertin, '93 Parkpre Team 925, '04 Kona King Kikapu, '05 Bianchi Vigorelli
    Posts
    3,054
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    I don't have a spoke tensioner so I plucked it with my finger and they all sound pretty much the same. Do you think I should get a tensioner?
    Also, if you pluck it with the tire off it will 'ring' better. I think plucking is an acceptable test for even tensioning. I've built probably 20 wheels and never used a tension meter. What I HAVE done along the way is to compare tension to a wheel that I know is good (has some miles on it and is fairly true), and that has given me a decent feel for adequate tension. That said, a tension meter would certain help, not hinder, my wheelbuilding.
    "I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." - Kurt Vonnegut jr.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,093
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    I don't have a spoke tensioner so I plucked it with my finger and they all sound pretty much the same. Do you think I should get a tensioner?
    At about $55 the Park TM-1 tension meter is a very good investment. It will give very consistent results if you release it onto the spokes gently. A quick release causes an elastic rebound and inconsistent results.

    Al

  20. #20
    Senior Member George's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Katy Texas
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix - Look 566 - Jamis Coda Elite
    Posts
    5,260
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks guys and I will get a tension meter, but I could really tell the difference just plucking.I was just thinking a little more about it and I think when everything sounds just right and lines up it would probably be a good idea to equal the tension on all the spokes. I was thinking about going with the tension that was close to all the spokes and making them all the same. I have the Mavic spokes on an Open Sport wheel, so I'll probably have to get a hold of them to see what's right.
    George

  21. #21
    use your best eye kenhill3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Olympia, Washington
    My Bikes
    '75 Bertin, '93 Parkpre Team 925, '04 Kona King Kikapu, '05 Bianchi Vigorelli
    Posts
    3,054
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds good, George.

    Don't forget that the tension on the drive side of your rear wheel will be higher than that of the non-drive side due to dish offset.
    "I tell you, We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." - Kurt Vonnegut jr.

  22. #22
    biked well well biked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,799
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Thanks guys and I will get a tension meter, but I could really tell the difference just plucking.I was just thinking a little more about it and I think when everything sounds just right and lines up it would probably be a good idea to equal the tension on all the spokes. I was thinking about going with the tension that was close to all the spokes and making them all the same. I have the Mavic spokes on an Open Sport wheel, so I'll probably have to get a hold of them to see what's right.
    Hey George, I spoke to Mavic not long ago about several of their rims and the recommended tension, with the Open Pro being one of the rims I asked about. The Mavic tech guy said 105-110 kgf would be the correct tension for that rim, for the drive-side rear spokes. Just follow the directions that come with the tension meter to convert the numbers on the tension meter to meaningful kgf numbers. A conversion table and instructions come with the tension meter. I got a Park TM-1 tension meter recently, it's quickly become one of my favorite tools.

    Btw, you'll never get all the spokes absolutely identically tensioned and have the wheel true and round, but having the tension meter allows you to put meaningful numbers to the tension, and that allows you to fairly easily make sure your average tension is correct, as well as making sure that all the spokes are within a certain range of tension. Again, it's all explained in the TM-1 instructions. Good luck-

  23. #23
    Senior Member George's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Katy Texas
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix - Look 566 - Jamis Coda Elite
    Posts
    5,260
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks well biked, I wonder if that same tension would be for the drive side as well. Also, that is the tension meter I was thinking about getting, the TM-1, now I have to find one for the right price.
    George

  24. #24
    biked well well biked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,799
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Thanks well biked, I wonder if that same tension would be for the drive side as well.
    Yes, the 105-110 kgf tension the Mavic tech guy gave me is the max. recommended tension for the rims, which will be for the spokes on the rear drive side. The non-drive side rear spokes will be significantly less when the wheel is proplerly dished. For the front spokes, I tension them a little less than the drive side rear. The published recommended max. spoke tension for those rims is about 90-110 kgf I believe. But for drive side rear, you need to be up near the 110 kgf figure in my opinion.

  25. #25
    Senior Member George's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Katy Texas
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix - Look 566 - Jamis Coda Elite
    Posts
    5,260
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just seen a new TM-1 on e-bay for 52.95, that's a great deal, but I'm not to crazy about e-bay.
    George

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •