Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-21-07, 08:35 PM   #1
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
SRAM 9spd chain noisy w/ 105

Just put new SRAM PC-971 9 speed chain on my 9 speed mostly Shimano 105 bike (actually the cassette is SRAM 12-26). Switched to this to have "powerlink". Previously had Shimano HG-53 which was very smooth. Immediately in the stand (not been on road) notice roughness in both chainrings, worse in large chainring; worse toward smaller cogs of cassette. However shifts fairly crisply. No obvious skipping either.

Previous chain had 2.5k miles on it.

I did remove the jockey wheels one at a time from the rear derailleur to grease. Possibly could have replaced in opposite direction.

The chain is NOT rubbing the front derailleur.

Are 9 speed SRAM chains noisy on otherwise Shimano 9 speed drivetrains?
Could it be the powerlink?

http://www.sram.com/en/srammountain/...peed/pc971.php

Last edited by TJHOO; 11-21-07 at 09:14 PM.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 09:15 PM   #2
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cassette/chainring wear?
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 09:24 PM   #3
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
Cassette/chainring wear?
Good thought, but should hopefully be in good shape after only 2.5k miles with pretty meticulous chain care
The Cassette and rings look ok, but I'm no mechanic.

Actually the Crankset is Sugino RD Octalink.
RD/FD/shifters/brakes Shimano 105.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 10:05 PM   #4
blamp28
Bikaholic
 
blamp28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Western, Michigan
Bikes: Trek Fuel 90, Giant OCR, Rans Screamer Tandem
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
Cassette/chainring wear?

That would have been my guess. I use SRAM chains exclusively on and off road and run it on My OCR with 105 rear der. Very smooth and noise free.
blamp28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 10:17 PM   #5
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blamp28 View Post
That would have been my guess. I use SRAM chains exclusively on and off road and run it on My OCR with 105 rear der. Very smooth and noise free.
You thinking w/ only 2.5k miles more cassette than rings?

Please note. Everything was quiet w/ the old Shimano HG-53.

Now I'm tempted to go w/ a Shimano cassette so can get 12-27 (current is SRAM 12-26).
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 10:33 PM   #6
erader
Senior Member
 
erader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: silicon valley
Bikes:
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHOO View Post
Just put new SRAM PC-971 9 speed chain on my 9 speed mostly Shimano 105 bike (actually the cassette is SRAM 12-26). Switched to this to have "powerlink". Previously had Shimano HG-53 which was very smooth. Immediately in the stand (not been on road) notice roughness in both chainrings, worse in large chainring; worse toward smaller cogs of cassette. However shifts fairly crisply. No obvious skipping either.

Previous chain had 2.5k miles on it.

I did remove the jockey wheels one at a time from the rear derailleur to grease. Possibly could have replaced in opposite direction.

The chain is NOT rubbing the front derailleur.

Are 9 speed SRAM chains noisy on otherwise Shimano 9 speed drivetrains?
Could it be the powerlink?


http://www.sram.com/en/srammountain/...peed/pc971.php
i used sachs chains before and now i use sram. no noise for me.

ed rader
erader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 10:33 PM   #7
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Tonight also installed new chain on another bike: Campy Chorus 10 speed chain w/ Wippermann Connex Link. Campy Veloce groupset mostly. Smooth as silk immediately. The prev chain on that 10 speed was a KMC DX10 that had at least 1k more miles than the bike I'm having trouble with; and it had some stretch. The setup in question's previous chain had no measurable stretch (Shimano HG53). Perhaps the SRAM cassettes are not as durable as Campy's?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 10:37 PM   #8
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by erader View Post
i used sachs chains before and now i use sram. no noise for me.

ed rader
Roughness occurs in both chainrings (a little more notable in large, but that may be due to tension).

The roughness does seem to vary depending on the cog used on the cassette. eg it's worse in the 12/13/14/15 and seems to improve above that up to the 26 tooth cog.

Performance has 20% sale tomorrow. Would like to figure this out. Think I should get a new cassette?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-07, 07:39 AM   #9
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Compare 2 setups:
1) 10 speed Campy mostly Veloce (exc FSA crank) w/ original KMC DX10 chain ridden 3.5k miles; chain was stretched upon removal; cassette looks a little worn. New Campy Record chain (not UN) installed w/ Wippermann Connex link. Smooth as silk.
2) 9 speed Shimano 105 (FD/RD/shifters), SRAM cassette, Sugino RD Octalink Crank; ridden 2.5k miles; orig Shimano HG53 chain NOT stretched; don't see much cassette wear. New SRAM PC-971 installed w/ included powerlink. Rough especially in smaller cogs of cassette, more noticeable in large chainring.

Note: this is just in the stand. Have not taken on the road yet.

I'm tempted to order today:
1-Shimano Ultegra CS 6500 cassette: http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...e.cfm?sku=1896
2-Shimano DA chain
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...e.cfm?sku=1602
3-Wippermann connex link
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/....cfm?sku=14547

Interesting that Performance's price of the DA chain is less than the HG-93.

Then can compare the 2 links w/ the Shimano vs SRAM chain on the old cassette. If none of the combos are smooth, then change the cassette. If don't need to change the cassette, then have spare ready.

What do you think?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-07, 08:02 AM   #10
Zouf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reflex response to "2.5k miles, replaced chain, rough, was ok before" is worn cassette. Old chain was doing fine with worn cassette (teeth were wearing to match chain roller/pin wear), new chain does not. Chainrings are less of a possibility. Worn cassette at 2.5k miles is possible if 1) chain was left to over-wear, and/or 2) riding conditions are rough (lots of contaminants - sand, dust, mud).

Suggestion: buy new cassette, try it, if it fixes it you're done, if not, well, you have a spare cassette...
Zouf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-07, 08:10 AM   #11
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zouf View Post
Reflex response to "2.5k miles, replaced chain, rough, was ok before" is worn cassette. Old chain was doing fine with worn cassette (teeth were wearing to match chain roller/pin wear), new chain does not. Chainrings are less of a possibility. Worn cassette at 2.5k miles is possible if 1) chain was left to over-wear, and/or 2) riding conditions are rough (lots of contaminants - sand, dust, mud).

Suggestion: buy new cassette, try it, if it fixes it you're done, if not, well, you have a spare cassette...
Same riding conditions and maintenance for the 2 setups listed. If anything, worse conditions, less maintenance, and more miles on the install that's smooth. That's what I don't understand!!!

Perhaps
1-SRAM cassette is less durable/forgiving than Veloce?
2-Shimano HG-53 chain (although not stretched c/w KMC D10) is a less durable chain than the KMC was?

Perhaps chain stretch is not the only wearing factor?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-07, 08:11 AM   #12
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Could 9 vs 10 speed be a factor here (the 10 speed faring better for some reason)?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-07, 10:10 AM   #13
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Posts: 26,908
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
You need to get another Shimano chain. PM me about what to do with your Sram chain.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-07, 10:02 PM   #14
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK:
-changed to another chain (Shimano DA): same problem.
-changed to new cassette (Shimano Ultegra 12-27): same problem

Quite rough in the stand in the 53/12,13,14

I got a different quick link in case (Wipperman). gonna try that and report back.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-07, 10:08 PM   #15
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Darn, the Wippermann Connex 9 spd link does not fit through the links in the shimano DA 9 spd chain....
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-07, 10:51 PM   #16
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, Connected w/ chain tool and Shimano connector pin.

Same roughness. Double darn

Could this be a rear derailleur problem? I had removed 1 of the jockey wheels that seemed like it was not rotating quite as smoothly as the other one with no chain on the bike, so under no tension. It was cleaned and regreased. I did not otherwise manipulate the RD

Last edited by TJHOO; 11-24-07 at 11:25 PM.
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-07, 03:20 PM   #17
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
Cassette/chainring wear?
Took to LBS who thinks it's chainring wear. Bingo!

The bike having trouble with is 9 speed 53/39 '05 Giro (training/flatter terrain road bike)

Also have '06 Tarmac 50/34 (faster, hillier rides); Looking to upgrade it's cranks anyway:

Today we swapped out the crankset from my '06 Tarmac (10 spd) and installed onto the Giro; it made less noise, but still not quiet (enough)..

Possible changes:
1) Tarmac has FSA SLK crankset-->upgrade to KForce-Light
2) Move the used SLK to Giro; likely need new chainrings b/c of wear and moving from 10 spd going to 9 spd bike; so this bike will be changing from 53/39 to 50/34.
3) New FSA Gossamer already purchased; have in hand. Use on 2005 Bianchi Cross bike (dirt-gravel/commuting/training).

Recs?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-07, 03:26 PM   #18
blamp28
Bikaholic
 
blamp28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Western, Michigan
Bikes: Trek Fuel 90, Giant OCR, Rans Screamer Tandem
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blamp28 View Post
That would have been my guess. I use SRAM chains exclusively on and off road and run it on My OCR with 105 rear der. Very smooth and noise free.
YMMV
blamp28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-07, 05:36 PM   #19
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, LBS installed new large chainring. Still grinds/vibrates in Large chainring while in 3 smallest cogs on the cassette (esp the smallest one).

To summarize; have been unable to solve the grinding with installing new:
-chain x 2
-cassette
-large chainring
-cranks

Could it be the hub-Mavic Cosmos?
Rear derailleur? (I had taken jockey wheel off to clean)

Perhaps this grinding/vibrating was going on before installing the new chain, and I simply hadn't noticed it...??

Last edited by TJHOO; 12-14-07 at 10:33 PM. Reason: add info
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-07, 11:45 PM   #20
bike_boy
Lula Mae = 15 lbs.
 
bike_boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: I keep hitting <Escape>, but I'm still here!
Bikes: 2011 Trek Madone 6.5 w/SRAM Red
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So are you now using 10 spd 50/34 FSA SLK Crankset on you 9 spd Giro with mostly Shimano 105 and Ultegra 12-27 cassette and DA 9 spd chain? Are you getting any new symptoms such as chain rub at all with that 10 spd crank?
bike_boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-07, 05:18 AM   #21
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bike_boy View Post
So are you now using 10 spd 50/34 FSA SLK Crankset on you 9 spd Giro with mostly Shimano 105 and Ultegra 12-27 cassette and DA 9 spd chain? Are you getting any new symptoms such as chain rub at all with that 10 spd crank?
In the stand(have not had on the road) it feels the same. No new symptoms at 1st quick glance. LBS said was good to go. When I brought home, still felt the grinding/vibrating, which feels like it's emanating from the rear of the bike.

The order of installation here has been (on 9spd Giro):
1- new chain (9spd)/cleaned 1 of the 2 jockey wheels of RD-->noted grinding
2- 2nd new chain (9spd)
3- new cassette (9spd)
4- different crankset (9/10spd) (handed down from other bike)
5- new large chainring (9spd)

RD?
Hub?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-07, 10:49 AM   #22
coldass
Just for fun...
 
coldass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Bikes: Cinelli Pro Estrada, Serotta Ti, De Rosa Neo Primato, Turner Flux and Spot, Baum Espresso, Yeti ARC-X
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You know the answer. Change / fix the jockey wheel... It/they not rolling free woukd cause your problems...
coldass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-07, 10:55 AM   #23
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldass View Post
You know the answer. Change / fix the jockey wheel... It/they not rolling free woukd cause your problems...
Indeed. IIRC the reason I removed 1 of the 2 to clean it was that it was not rotating as freely as the other (with the chain off).

Thanks,

Anyone else agree here?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-07, 11:31 AM   #24
TJHOO
Senior but far from AARP
Thread Starter
 
TJHOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Bikes: 2006 Specialized SWorks Tarmac; 2005 Bianchi Giro; 2005 Bianchi Cross Veloce; 1997 Litespeed Catalyst; 1983 Performance Steel
Posts: 776
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Talked to LBS who said the symptoms were the same when they they tried:
-my wheel on another bike
-wheel from another bike on mine.

So he did not think it was the jockey wheel or the hub.

He said the only way he was able to alleviate the symptoms was trying a 10 speed cassette (the bike is 9spd). He called Shimano who said they had seen this with some of their more recent 9 speed cassettes. Of course I had noticed this with the previous 9spd SRAM cassette. He reinstalled the Shimano 9 spd cassette.

He suggested I just ride it and see if it quiets down with wearing in.
It's primarily when in the smallest cog.

Thoughts?
TJHOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-07, 11:37 AM   #25
Sci-Fi
Senior Member
 
Sci-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Chainline?
Sci-Fi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:52 PM.