Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-16-07, 06:13 PM   #1
makeinu
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
barnett's manual...disappointing

So I bought a volume of Barnett's Manual and I've been reading a few chapters online.

Overall I have to say that I don't like it. It's confusing and uninformative. Too many definitions, too many words lacking actual detail, and not enough pictures. Many sections read something like this:
"Definitions:
front widget- widget towards the front of the bike
rear widget- widget towards the rear of the bike

Widget adjustment:
Use adjusting screw of front widget to adjust towards front of bike.
Use adjusting screw of rear widget to adjust towards rear of bike.

Troubleshooting:
Problem- Widget not straight.
Solution- Straighten widget."
Most of what is said is obvious, while the important questions go unanswered. Things like "How do I distinguish between different types?", "How do I know what it should look like or how it should feel?", "What are the best techniques to accomplish such and such?" are generally not addressed. It reads like a high school textbook whose words are meant to be memorized and repeated, when it should read like a manual with practical tips.

On the other hand, I really like Sutherland's Handbook, but it's more of a reference for compatibility and types, not methods. I also like sheldonbrown.com, but the topics covered are limited. Can anyone recommend a well written source of methods like sheldonbrown, that's as comprehensive as Sutherland's?

Last edited by makeinu; 12-16-07 at 08:26 PM.
makeinu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 07:17 PM   #2
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22
Posts: 10,136
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Wow! Makes me wonder if you're talking about the same Barnett's Manual I have. It answers virtually all of my questions thoroughly and concisely and is well illustrated. Using the troubleshooting tables I'm usually able to pinpoint problem causes and solutions quickly.

Looking at the 13 Amazon.com reviews, 9 customers rate it 5 stars and 4 customers rate it 4 stars.

Just sayin' ...
__________________
- Stan
I'm with her.

Last edited by Scooper; 12-16-07 at 07:24 PM.
Scooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 08:52 PM   #3
makeinu
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Wow! Makes me wonder if you're talking about the same Barnett's Manual I have. It answers virtually all of my questions thoroughly and concisely and is well illustrated. Using the troubleshooting tables I'm usually able to pinpoint problem causes and solutions quickly.

Looking at the 13 Amazon.com reviews, 9 customers rate it 5 stars and 4 customers rate it 4 stars.

Just sayin' ...
Read Sutherland's section on brakes (http://www.sutherlandsbicycle.com/Chapter11.pdf) and then look at Barnett's.

The difference is like night and day. Sutherland's proceeds in logical fashion, first over viewing the various kinds of brakes, then discussing compatibility, and finally going over adjustment (type by type) including exact measurements, torques, and complete contextual diagrams. Barnett's on the other hand is a mess. First he jumps into a sea of circular definitions where he hides information on the various kinds of brakes available. Then he suddenly starts discussing various procedures in random order with hardly any indication of which procedures apply to which kinds of brakes. Finally he concludes with a trouble shooting section containing nothing but the obvious.

Neither discusses effective methods such as how effectively secure brake pads during tightening. Aligning the pads within 0.5 mm of perfection doesn't do me one bit of good if tightening them makes them move 20mm. Of course, I have my own methods for doing this, but that's not the point. I'm perfectly capable of playing Macgyver. I bought the book so I wouldn't have to.
makeinu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-07, 09:00 PM   #4
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Barnetts is a procedure manual, completely different from say the park manual which
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 05:37 AM   #5
dobber
Perineal Pressurized
 
dobber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Bikes:
Posts: 6,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by makeinu View Post
The difference is like night and day. Sutherland's proceeds in logical fashion, first over viewing the various kinds of brakes, then discussing compatibility, and finally going over adjustment (type by type) including exact measurements, torques, and complete contextual diagrams. Barnett's on the other hand is a mess.
I think it was a moral decision.
__________________
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
dobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 08:49 AM   #6
makeinu
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
Barnetts is a procedure manual, completely different from say the park manual which
Which is what?
makeinu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 10:21 PM   #7
nitropowered
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio
Bikes: Custom Custom Custom
Posts: 5,104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think like any reference manual, you should pick and choose the best parts of each to the job at hand. I haven't looked through a Barnetts manual but Sutherlands is one of my favorites as a pure encyclopedia of bike stuff. Its what we pull out when we come across some weird (like french and swiss bottom brackets)
nitropowered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-07, 11:07 PM   #8
bmalmquist
Wrench User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Park's Big Blue Book has been of great use to some of the recent apprentices I've had. Don't count out Barnett's though. I tell new employees that if they encounter something that just has to get done and no one is around to help, to consult Barnett's. I understand your complaint though. It's somewhat robotic: telling you step-by-step how to adjust or fix something, but not really why it needs fixing or what you're adjusting . . .
bmalmquist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-07, 11:55 PM   #9
PhilThee
Downhill Racer
 
PhilThee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes: 1994 Bridgestone RB1, 2006 Cannondale R1000, 2007 Cannondale Caad9 Optimo2
Posts: 739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes I bought it along with the big blue book.
Barnett's is a mess like you said.

The information is there you just have to wade through a lot of repetitive material and skip sections.

Maybe, hopefully in the next volume they will fix it.
__________________
"I didn't see him/her" is a confession, not an excuse.
PhilThee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 07:37 AM   #10
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Bikes:
Posts: 5,945
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilThee View Post
Yes I bought it along with the big blue book.
Barnett's is a mess like you said.

The information is there you just have to wade through a lot of repetitive material and skip sections.

Maybe, hopefully in the next volume they will fix it.
John Barnett himself said there will not be a volume 6. Updates will be published in CD format, and will be just that. Updates. No more complete volumes.
Who knows though, it was last winter when I last spoke to him, he may change his mind.
Dan Burkhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 08:33 AM   #11
I_bRAD
Call me The Breeze
 
I_bRAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Corbyville Ontario
Bikes: 2004 Litespeed Siena, 1996 Litespeed Obed, 1992 Miele (unknown model), 1982 Meile Uno LS.
Posts: 3,699
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmalmquist View Post
I tell new employees that if they encounter something that just has to get done and no one is around to help, to consult Barnett's.
I'd tell them that if something just has to get done, then better bust your ass to get it done for 4pm cause the customer is probably coming back in a week. If they say "take your time" that means they'll stop by every couple of hours until it's done.
I_bRAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-07, 11:34 AM   #12
rmfnla
Senior Member
 
rmfnla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)
Posts: 5,928
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
Barnetts is a procedure manual, completely different from say the park manual which
Hey, operator; you ok?
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
rmfnla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 PM.