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Old 10-01-03, 06:57 AM   #1
fujibike
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'Glueless' Patches

I've used Park's glueless patches this past summer and have been happy with them. I am wondering with fall/winter coming on how they perform in colder temps. Do they maintain their good adhesive qualities is chillier weather? Also, has anyone determined if there is a 'shelf life' to such patches?
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Old 10-01-03, 07:41 AM   #2
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Only tried one (still fine at the moment). Local lbs reckoned they lasted as well as conventional patches. Don't know about shelf-life but going on other adhesive products I'd give them about two years - they're cheap enough to throw and be on the safe side.
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Old 10-01-03, 08:12 AM   #3
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They will NOT stick to a wet tube, so if you flat in the rain, you had better have a spare tube or a conventional patch kit.
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Old 10-01-03, 08:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by demoncyclist
They will NOT stick to a wet tube, so if you flat in the rain, you had better have a spare tube or a conventional patch kit.
Can't you just dry the puncture area off with a tissue first? From memory conventional kits tell you to clean and dry the area to be patched.
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Old 10-05-03, 12:08 PM   #5
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Now here's the strange park. Supposedly, Park patches are just for temporay use. I would run them for dang near forever, until I dropped my tire pressure from 110 to 90/95 (F/R). Now they will hold only for 30 - 40 miles on a hot day.
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Old 10-05-03, 01:20 PM   #6
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Glueless patches do not work well with Co2 or if your tubes are injected with a flat sealant.
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Old 10-05-03, 02:11 PM   #7
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My experience with them has never been good, but perhaps the product has improved over the past two years. I definitely recommend avoiding *-Mart and other cheapo patches.

I would like to compare others' experience, such as Da Tinker's observation that they worked best at high pressures (presumably because they are held between the tyre casing and the tube itself). If this is generally true, this would make them very poor candidates for mountain bikes or hybrids.
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Old 10-05-03, 04:46 PM   #8
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I'll make the supreme sacrifice here, I have been very flat free in commuting, only 4 in 3 years. I've patched them all with Park glueless. I burnish them well with my plastic tire lever. All 4 are still holding fine. Fortunately, I haven't had any winter flats. Maybe the ice and snow keeps the hazards away from my tires. I'll tell you more next week when I will undoubtedly have a flat every day.
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Old 10-06-03, 04:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Glueless patches do not work well with Co2 or if your tubes are injected with a flat sealant.
I have used Park's glueless patches but not in winter months and was curious about their 'cold' performance. I don't use tubes with a sealant, however, I do use a CO2 inflator. I've not experienced any problem with the CO2 but I must say that I deflate the tire and refill by pump when I return from a ride.
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Old 10-06-03, 08:08 AM   #10
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Drying the tube will work, but you would have to be under some sort of shelter for it to remain dry while you finish the repair. If you happen on someplace with public restrooms, hand dryers work really well, and the heat helps the adhesive set faster.
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Old 10-06-03, 01:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fujibike
I have used Park's glueless patches but not in winter months and was curious about their 'cold' performance. I don't use tubes with a sealant, however, I do use a CO2 inflator. I've not experienced any problem with the CO2 but I must say that I deflate the tire and refill by pump when I return from a ride.
Well it may have something to do with Tx and the humidity, but the two times I have used glueless patches and Co2 it blew them off the tube. Same goes for the three other instances with other riders. Also the tube selant I use (True Goo) and even Slime in some instances seem to disolve the adhesive on the patch. So I carry standard vulcanizing cement and patches. Although with True Goo I don't really use it you never know though.
Anyway it has been about 7 years since i wsa in a winter climate so the gluless application and cold weather I am ignorant too.
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Old 10-07-03, 05:50 AM   #12
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GP-2 Patches

The goal of the Park Tool Company is to make the Park Tool GP-2 patches 100% effective. Our experience with the patch over the past few years shows there are basically four factors that lead to patch failure. The first is when the tube is scuffed too aggressively with the sandpaper. When the tube is scuffed too aggressively or for too long, tiny grooves are formed—grooves too deep for the adhesive to flow into and seal off. As a result, air can escape. It just takes a couple of light swipes with the sandpaper.

The second source of failure is a tube that is not clean and/or dry. If there is any dirt, talc, or tube residue left after sanding, the patch will adhere to that dirt or talc rather than the tube. Likewise, if there is any moisture on the tube, it will get trapped between the patch and the tube. To insure the tube is dry, quickly wipe it with a damp piece of cloth and let it dry. Then apply the patch, making sure there are no wrinkles in the patch material.

The third source of failure is when the hole in the tube is directly on, or next to a seam. In this case, there is not enough surface area around the hole for the patch to seal against. In these situations, no patch is going to hold well.

The forth source of failure stems from the tube to tire width compatibility. If the tube is too narrow for the tire, it will stretch too much and this may stress the patch bond.

We also produce a vulcanizing patch kit, the VP-1, see it at http://www.parktool.com/tools/VP_1.htm

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Old 10-07-03, 06:13 AM   #13
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Here's another question about patching, not necessarily glueless patches. When checking an inflated tube for a leak it is usually easily found. When the tube deflates it's darn hard to find that pin hole. What do you use, if anything to mark that leak?
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Old 10-07-03, 10:18 AM   #14
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Hey Calvin, thanks for the clarification. I think I've been scrubbing that tube too hard when I patch it- I had no idea it was just one or two swipes.
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Old 10-07-03, 12:10 PM   #15
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Calvin,


Thanks for the clarification.

Can you use an alcohol patch to clean the tube?


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Old 10-07-03, 01:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin Jones
The forth source of failure stems from the tube to tire width compatibility. If the tube is too narrow for the tire, it will stretch too much and this may stress the patch bond.
Calvin Jones
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Thanks for the info.

I've only used Park's glueless patches once. I really liked how easily and quickly it went on. And it seemed to bond really well. But this is what I think happened to me. The tube was rated as the appropriate size but the following morning the tire was flat again. I inspected the tube and came to the conclusion that as the tube stretched it pulled out from under about half of the patch.
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Old 10-07-03, 06:15 PM   #17
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And the fifth source of failure is:

the glue on glueless patches is too little, and has spent too much time exposed to air, heat, etc.

C'mon , people- a patch takes all of 2 more minutes to do properly . When done properly, a patch will hold practically forever. This technology is over 100 years old, and it still works (better than any glueless patch, certainly).

When will people realize that just spending money for something that is supposed to be easier is pointless?
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Old 10-08-03, 02:38 PM   #18
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Regardless of the age of the 'technology' of standard patching techniques, I find glueless kinda nice. Very compact in the saddle bag and no tube of glue to deal with. I've had great success with them, just curious about their winter durability and shelf life. Does rubber cement freeze? As far as sticking with proven technology, I recall a bike I had with friction shifters that were very long lived (15 yrs) and easily maintained. Don't know if you can say that about todays complex shift mechanisms.
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Old 10-08-03, 03:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Stohler
When will people realize that just spending money for something that is supposed to be easier is pointless?
Even the older technologies have their issues. Ask anyone who find out their tube of cement was not capped tightly enough and dried up.

Everything has its trade offs and personal preference will go a long way to determining what works for that individual. I have never really ever had any problems with glueless, and I find the portability of glueless highly convenient.

After all, there was a time before deraillers when single speeds were good enough, and a time before the chain, and gears, and even before ... the wheel. The success of all these technologies just provided us with more choice. Of course, I cannot understand why anyone would choose not to ride a bicycle.

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Old 10-10-03, 10:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fujibike
I've used Park's glueless patches this past summer and have been happy with them. I am wondering with fall/winter coming on how they perform in colder temps. Do they maintain their good adhesive qualities is chillier weather? Also, has anyone determined if there is a 'shelf life' to such patches?
They are the only patches I use. I have patched a tube in the rain, in the winter, and in high humidty. They held as well as conventional patches. In fact, two of the were on a tube for over 9 months when a third puncture occurred. I tossed the tube for a new one.

In the rain, just be sure you have something to dry the surface. There is a small piece of emery cloth included. Use it, then use something to ensure they are really stuck good. I use the end of my mini-pump and the down tube.
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Old 10-11-03, 11:34 AM   #21
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For the original question about the glueless patch in cold weather, the weather doesn't get that cold here, so I can't tell.

I have been lucky enough to use the glueless patch only once in many years, and it worked very good.

For the glue patches, I'll never use again. It seems that I find the glue always dry when I need it most. They should supply the one-time-use glue tubes as many as the patches, then it'll work.
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Old 10-11-03, 12:08 PM   #22
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most don't like them, it seems.

Those I ride with don't think them very permament. I seem to have more problems or patience with patches with glue. Either I put too much glue on and takes forever to dry or else I don't wait long enough for the drying process. Often I am in a hurry during a commute. No time for trial and error.
I carry enough tubes to replace it entirely and worry about patching later..
Actually, with the Kevlar tires, it is my hope -tubes last long enough that when they puncuture- I have gotten enough life out of them? I have no patience for tires with lots of patches. Usually two patches, and I am done with that tube. Catch tubes on sale and stock up, they are not that expensive. Changing a whole tube seems faster than the patching up process.
When using glueless patches, it seems I have had decent luck with them and less trial and error compared to those with glue.
As to glueless patches, move to California, in winter we do not have all that much wet weather.
I sort of think, a tire will last 6,000 miles and my expectation, I can get 2500 miles out of a tube- hopefully without using a patch.
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Old 10-11-03, 02:49 PM   #23
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I have a tube or two that has glueless patches on them for some time now and no problem. I also agree with the glue business - nothing worse than not quite covering the entire patch area with glue and having a loose edge. Also, after three patches, the 4th leak means a new tube. As for on the road - always carry a spare tube (virgin or patched) and have the glueless in the event I mess up installing or missed whatever caused the leak in the first place.
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