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Old 02-27-08, 04:39 PM   #1
Zinn-X
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Just bought a Park Tools chain whip and lockring remover ... PROBLEM

Damn it all

I guess this is how Park Tools locks you into using only THEIR tools. They're using an ever-so-slightly non-standard bolt size on the lockring removal tool, so neither of my wrenches fit. I have a (non-Park Tools) wrench that is specifically aimed to fit a standard lockring removal nut, and the hex hole is just barely too small. I tried my adjustable wrench, and it's the same flippin' deal. The maximum adjustment size of the wrench is less than half a millimeter too small to fit the nut. Ridiculous!

Yeah, make fun of me all you want, but I already took an hour out of my day to bike down the mountain to my LBS and I just don't have time to do it again.

I have a spare chain lying around... I suppose I could just grip the casette with the chain and use hex hole on the backside of the Park Tools chain whip on the Park Tools lockring removal nut? (surprise! it fits perfectly! maybe I should have bought two!!!!) Would this work? Or would it just mess my hand up even more than it is after getting my thumb caught in my crankset yesterday while I was pedaling? Don't ask...
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Old 02-27-08, 05:01 PM   #2
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I tried my adjustable wrench, and it's the same flippin' deal. The maximum adjustment size of the wrench is less than half a millimeter too small to fit the nut. Ridiculous!
Take a look at your adjustable wrench. Many of them will have a setscrew that can be removed allowing the adjustable half of the wrench to be pulled out. If you look at the splines that the little thumbscrew mesh with, they will have a certain stopping point that determines the maximum opening point. A little work with a file or Dremel will sometimes allow it to open further. I've made smaller carry-along wrenches cover a wider range of fasteners this way.
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Old 02-27-08, 05:05 PM   #3
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I noticed that too with my lock ring remover. The open end of my 1" combination wrench fits (with a very small amount of :slop"), but the hex end doesn't. A couple strokes with a file on the hex corners of the tool would fix it.
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Old 02-27-08, 05:18 PM   #4
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seriously dude, it's parks fault that your shifting spanner is too small? buy a bigger shifter, problem solved. it's hardly vendor lock in.

as for the fixed head not fitting, it's probably cause one is sized in imperial the other metric. if it's simply that, then again i don't see how this is park's fault or is them 'locking you in'.

if the socket was round and only accepted some obscure allen key diameter like 8.6mm that you could only get from park, then you'd have a point.
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Old 02-27-08, 05:27 PM   #5
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then you'd have a point.
i do have a point: i'm frustrated. and you aren't helping

let me just say that my problem is not park tools' fault. i suspect the fixed wrench is at fault since it's some no-name thing i got off nashbar. i'm certain that if i had bought a park tools wrench, i would not be having this issue. whether that's vendor lock-in, i don't know. you're right. user error.

eventually i'll buy every relevant park tools tool available (separately) and have spent double or more than i would have by buying a kit.

the comment about filing the spline on the adjustable wrench was interesting. i think i'll do that. thanks, wordbiker!
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Old 02-27-08, 07:06 PM   #6
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go to any decent hardware store and buy a bigger shifting spanner. you can get low end ones for less than $10 or get a really nice one that will last you forever like a sidchrome or snap-on etc.

frustration gone!
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Old 02-27-08, 07:17 PM   #7
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GO BIG!
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Old 02-27-08, 07:35 PM   #8
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GO BIG!
lol I use a 15" for the big wrench.

I got a Park tool for the Campy lockring, works with a 24mm socket (I got a combo open/box wrench just for that). Chain whip is saved for holding the cassette.

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Old 02-27-08, 07:49 PM   #9
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Damn it all

I guess this is how Park Tools locks you into using only THEIR tools. .
You realize you can grip it with a larger crescent wrench? Or have they not been invented yet where you are?
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Old 02-27-08, 07:55 PM   #10
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You realize you can grip it with a larger crescent wrench? Or have they not been invented yet where you are?
Wow, you're really funny. You should be a stand up comedian.

You know, I thought a standard wrench specifically for use on lockring removal tools would suffice, but I guess not. Furthermore, I was frustrated to find that my adjustable wrench was just a little bit too small. Darn! But then you came along to save the day! Up until now, I hadn't considered the remote possibility that I *might* need a bigger wrench.

I'll just go and see if they've invented one around here, and if not, I could do it myself and be rich! RICHES BEYOND MY WILDEST DREAMS!

Nobody has yet answered my question about using an old chain as a makeshift chain whip and using the proper chain whip wrench end to loosen the lockring. I'll assume the answer is no.
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Old 02-27-08, 08:10 PM   #11
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I just measured 3 park lockring tools and 2 park freewheel removers. They are 1". Now thats what I call a really special size. Maybe you ought to just take your bike to a shop. On second thought -- the shop guys dont deserve to have to put up with your attitude either. At least they get paid for it

CDR - maybe your campy lockring tool is from pedros? they seem to be 24mm -- or your 24mm socket is really sloppy!
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Old 02-27-08, 08:25 PM   #12
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I will answer your actual question...

If you have a set of vice grips you can use an old chain as a chain whip.

You can do it without the vice grip, but you may need your grip to be very stong, and your skin very tough.

The purpose of the chain whip is to keep the cassette from spinning while you loosen/remove the lock ring... so, as long as you can do that in some way, you are golden.
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Old 02-27-08, 09:17 PM   #13
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1" socket or wrench.
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Old 02-27-08, 09:20 PM   #14
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I have a Park FR 5 casette lockring remover and a 1" socket or wrench fits it perfectly.
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Old 02-27-08, 09:24 PM   #15
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I just measured 3 park lockring tools and 2 park freewheel removers. They are 1". Now thats what I call a really special size. Maybe you ought to just take your bike to a shop. On second thought -- the shop guys dont deserve to have to put up with your attitude either. At least they get paid for it
I just measured two Park FR-5 lock ring tools and they both fit both ends of a Craftsman 1" combination wrench and into a 1" 6-point socket perfectly. Apparently the problem isn't Park's.
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Old 02-27-08, 10:58 PM   #16
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Yeah, make fun of me all you want,
Don't whine about operator's response, you did say to make fun of you.

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Or would it just mess my hand up even more than it is after getting my thumb caught in my crankset yesterday while I was pedaling? Don't ask...
I'd still like to know how this was done.
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Old 02-27-08, 11:36 PM   #17
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Nobody has yet answered my question about using an old chain as a makeshift chain whip and using the proper chain whip wrench end to loosen the lock ring. I'll assume the answer is no.
I'm kinda' new at this, but I have removed a couple of cassettes without a proper whip. Lemme tell you it ain't worth it. This is one of the several spots in bike wrenching where you can really eff up some knuckles and fingers; just use the right tools in the right spots...........
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Old 02-28-08, 12:18 AM   #18
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I made a couple chain whips out of a 3/16" piece of flat bar and an old chain. Drill a hole near 1 corner of the bar and install the chain with your chain tool. Use a piece of chain long enough to wrap around the cog plus a couple links. Since I had the flat bar, I made 2 with different lengths of chain. 1 for larger cogs and the other for smaller.

Have you just tried knocking down the high corners of the tool with a file. That's where my tool wants to hang up on the box wrench. The tool measures .998" wide, but it's like the corners are "pinched out" a bit.


Also see if the tool will work when installing the wrench from the "notch side". Mine fit's about 1/2 way into the box wrench from that direction.

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Old 02-28-08, 12:41 AM   #19
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CDR - maybe your campy lockring tool is from pedros? they seem to be 24mm -- or your 24mm socket is really sloppy!
I think you're right. It's shiny, not black, so it's probably not a Park. I wonder if this means all Pedros are 24mm? I already have the wrench...

I echo the previous statements about either making a new chain whip using old chain or using a real chain whip or using a large adjustable to turn the lockring tool. I would not use just a plain chain. I think I did it once but I don't remember, and thinking about it now just makes me cringe.

Actually, if you have chain, you could wrap the end of it on the cassette while the wheel is up against a door. Thread the chain under said door, hold it with something like vice grips or stick a metal rod through the chain or something (a really strong fork from your kitchen drawer?), then turn the lockring tool.

The door acts as a "force steadier" so the chain doesn't move around a lot. The tire can brace the wheel against the door (the wheel would be perpendicular to the door). You'd chew up the bottom of the door.

If you try it and get hurt, don't blame me. This is purely theoretical

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Old 02-28-08, 06:42 AM   #20
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I really like the Park cassette tool with the 1/2" socket drive. Adjustable wrenches just don't cut it for everyone.
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Old 02-28-08, 08:00 AM   #21
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So much frustration for so little. A tool with a hex head (whatever its size) can certainly be considered as a standard tool. Park isn't responsible for what tools you have on your bench... As for using an old chain for a chainwhip, perfectly doable - I built one from a wood hammer handle, two bolts and two bits of chain. Works great, except not as narrow as a real one, so ok to remove a cassette, but not so great in 2-chainwhips freewheel cog removal jobs (for those who get into that kind of amusement).
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Old 02-28-08, 12:30 PM   #22
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I think i have the same tool. I use my chain whip for a chain whip, and channel lock pliers for the cassette lockring tool. The lockring tool is hard enough to not be damaged by the channel locks. Basically, any pliers with large enough jaws will work fine.
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Old 02-28-08, 02:37 PM   #23
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FYI, Shimano's own lock ring tool and their freewheel tool both have 24 mm hexes and also fit well in a 15/16" socket.

As an aside I once asked Park (jokingly) why they made their SR-1 chainwhip tool with the 1" hex wrench on the other end. How can you use both ends at the same time? The answer was, well, we had to do something with the other end so why not?
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