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  1. #1
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    Which Reynolds tubing is closest to Dedacciai COM 12.5 ?

    Does anyone know which Reynolds tubing is most similar in characteristics, at least alloy (not so much tube profile), to Dedacciai COM 12.5? Is it the old Reynolds 531 (which is similar to 4130)?

    EDIT: also, same question for Dedacciai SAT.



    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by wroomwroomoops; 03-01-08 at 05:30 AM.

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    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    531 is different from 4130. 501 is Reynolds vanilla flavor.





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    I have a Co-Motion solo frame built in 1998 that uses a Reynolds tubing grade not listed in this table. Mine is "Reynolds 725" and the decal claims it's a Heat Treated, Butted Cr-Mo tube set. I believe it's a heat treated version of 525.

    Is your table prior to 1998 or has the 725 set been discontinued?

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    725 is a newer tubeset. AFAIK, it is still made, since it is popular for touring bikes in the UK. I think it is a stronger heat treated 525, like you suggest.

    COM 12.5 is the entry level set right? I guess that makes it similar to 631. You cannot weld 531, whereas you can weld COM 12.5.

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    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    I have a Co-Motion solo frame built in 1998 that uses a Reynolds tubing grade not listed in this table. Mine is "Reynolds 725" and the decal claims it's a Heat Treated, Butted Cr-Mo tube set. I believe it's a heat treated version of 525.

    Is your table prior to 1998 or has the 725 set been discontinued?
    I have no idea. Try asking in the frame building forum.

  6. #6
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    To clarify: I have precise data for Reynolds tubings - but I don't have any info on Dedacciai 12.5 or SAT.

    Because I have precise information about Reynolds, I wanted to ask which Reynolds tubing is similar to those Dedacciai tubings, so I can compare them. That's because data about Reynolds tubing is extremely simple to get by, but Dedacciai info is sparse to none.

  7. #7
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    Ziemas, by the way: no need for you to reply to my posts because I have you on ignore + hard policy not to ever "View post".

    I thought you might want to know.

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    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
    I have a Co-Motion solo frame built in 1998 that uses a Reynolds tubing grade not listed in this table. Mine is "Reynolds 725" and the decal claims it's a Heat Treated, Butted Cr-Mo tube set. I believe it's a heat treated version of 525.

    Is your table prior to 1998 or has the 725 set been discontinued?
    725 is not discontinued: many frame builders still use it.

    Heck, even the venerable Reynolds 531 can be ordered (special order, but I don't know who would do it as it's no better than normal 4130 chrome-moly).

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wroomwroomoops View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wroomwroomoops View Post
    To clarify: I have precise data for Reynolds tubings - but I don't have any info on Dedacciai 12.5 or SAT.

    Because I have precise information about Reynolds, I wanted to ask which Reynolds tubing is similar to those Dedacciai tubings, so I can compare them. That's because data about Reynolds tubing is extremely simple to get by, but Dedacciai info is sparse to none.
    Ziemas, by the way: no need for you to reply to my posts because I have you on ignore + hard policy not to ever "View post".

    I thought you might want to know.
    I have that info. Good luck finding it.

  10. #10
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wroomwroomoops View Post
    Is it the old Reynolds 531 (which is similar to 4130)?
    I don't know the answer to your main question, but I do know that Reynolds 531, in terms of the alloy, is not similar to 4130. 531 is a manganese moly, 4130 is a chromoly.

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    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    I don't know the answer to your main question, but I do know that Reynolds 531, in terms of the alloy, is not similar to 4130. 531 is a manganese moly, 4130 is a chromoly.
    I checked, and you are 100% correct. 531 is indeed Mn, Mo and C steel.

    EDIT: though it appears 4130 also contains manganese.

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    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    One other thing to note about quality steel tubesets: while most of them are some form of chromoly, they're not necessarily 4130.

  13. #13
    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    One other thing to note about quality steel tubesets: while most of them are some form of chromoly, they're not necessarily 4130.
    Very true.

    So, does anyone have any clue about the Dedacciai 12.5 and SAT material?

  14. #14
    Decrepit Member Scooper's Avatar
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    These data are from several sources, so I can't vouch for complete accuracy. However, it's pretty clear that the top Dedacciai steel tube set is EOM 16.5, followed by SAT 14.5 (heat treated, and formerly known as Zero), followed by COM 12.5 (not heat treated, and formerly known as Zero Uno). By all acounts, COM 12.5 is a very good butted tube set with slightly thicker tube walls than SAT 14.5 and consequently slightly heavier. One source says SAT 14.5 and COM 12.5 are the same alloy, but SAT 14.5 is heat treated and COM 12.5 is not.

    EOM 16.5 Steel

    A low alloy steel characterized by the presence of Boron. This series is drawn, triple butted, of double thickness and heat treated. Its chemical composition is
    C – Cr – Mo – Va – Mn – Bo.

    The technical characteristics of the EOM 16.5 series are 1650 N/mm2 tensile strength and a 10% yield strength. Maximum reliability and lightness.

    Top of the range frames for both amateur and professional use. Oversize looking. Tubeset weight 1290 g.

    SAT 14.5 Steel (Formerly Zero)

    Triple butted and of variable thickness, this series is composed of Chromium (Cr), Molybdenum (Mo), Vanadium (VA), and Manganese (Mn).

    Heat treated. The material undergoes purification treatment. A tensile strength of 1450 N/mm2 and a yield strength of 10%.

    Renowned for its widespread use, this series symbolizes the perfect compromise between comfort and rigidity. Tubeset weight 1450 g.

    COM 12.5 Steel (Formerly Zero Uno)

    Triple butted and of variable thickness, this series is composed of Chromium (Cr), Molybdenum (Mo), Vanadium (VA), and Manganese (Mn).

    Not heat treated. A tensile strength of 1250 N/mm2 and a yield strength of 10%.
    - Stan

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    Sir Fallalot wroomwroomoops's Avatar
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    Thanks, Stan. This will be noted down. I really did get the impression that SAT and 12.5 would be different alloys, but who knows.

  16. #16
    cs1
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    Still alive in 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by wroomwroomoops View Post
    725 is not discontinued: many frame builders still use it.

    Heck, even the venerable Reynolds 531 can be ordered (special order, but I don't know who would do it as it's no better than normal 4130 chrome-moly).
    While doing a search on 725 I came on this long dead thread. Seems that 725 is still produced. Not only that it's being used in a current production bike.

    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...io_inferno.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    While doing a search on 725 I came on this long dead thread. Seems that 725 is still produced. Not only that it's being used in a current production bike.

    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...io_inferno.htm
    Thanks for the update. My Co-Motion is welded 725 and it's nice to know the tubing is still in use.

  18. #18
    I'm Carbon Curious 531phile's Avatar
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    I got nothing to add, but Dedacciai is one flavor of steel that I have never tried. Call me Dedacciai curious. I see them as the Ishiwata tubing of our times, good tubesets, but hard to find on a bike. Just not as common.

    Quote Originally Posted by avner View Post
    I loled. Twice. Then I cried. Then I rubbed one out and cried again, but thanks for sharing.

  19. #19
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    No comparison of tube wall thickness and outside diameter data of the various tubes
    from the desired manufacturers offered , . that matters . More.

    does builders web site say what tube set was used ? example:
    numbers like .9 - .7 - .9 , in mm typically

    for DB tube, that's Butt - center - Butt ... thickness of tube walls .

    If you want to be picky, get more data to have a meaningful comparison.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 01-10-11 at 11:31 AM.

  20. #20
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 531phile View Post
    I got nothing to add, but Dedacciai is one flavor of steel that I have never tried. Call me Dedacciai curious. I see them as the Ishiwata tubing of our times, good tubesets, but hard to find on a bike. Just not as common.
    I don't know a whole lot about it either, other than it's Italian steel. I do know that sometime in the '90's Pinarello switched from Columbus tubing to Deda, and that Deda supplied them with their Pinarello proprietary steel tubing thereafter. The "Pinarello ARX" tubing that my lugged steel '97 Pinarello Vuelta is built from was made by Deda for Pinarello:



    Last edited by well biked; 01-10-11 at 10:08 AM.

  21. #21
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    com 12.5 is seamless Cr-mo and i believe similar to zero1 as now is named, zero1 is 0.8/0.7 0.5

    link to deda tubing steel series
    http://www.dedacciai.net/ita-tecnolo...te-acciaio.php

    link to pdf tubing catolouge with schemas
    http://www.dedacciai.net/download/save.php?idf=11

    link to comparision chart, at the bottom, between various columbus and dedacciai, here are old named com 12.5 sat 14.5 eom 16.5
    http://www.ing.unitn.it/~colombo/telai/telaioacc.htm

    Happy riding to all

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