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Old 03-01-08, 06:46 PM   #1
macilvennon
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Shimano 10 Speed Set Up Problem. Please Help!

Hi,
Please help. I am having serious problems setting up the transmission (Gears) of my Shimano 10 speed group set. My Trek 1500 frame is 3-4 years old and I have recently upgraded every component on the bike as follows:
- Shimano 105 10 speed STI Levers (2007 Version)
- Shimano 105 10 speed Rear Mech (2007 Version)
- Shimano 105 10 speed chain (2007 Version)
- Shimano Ultegra 10 speed Cassette '12-23' (2007 Version)
- Shimano Ultegra 10 speed hollowtech 2 Chainset '42-53' (2007 Version)
- Shimano 10 Speed Dura Ace Front Mech (2007 Version)
- Shimano 105 10 speed hollowtech 2 bottom bracket (2007 Version)
- Shimano R550 Wheels

All parts are new and I have tinkered with the setup for hours on end. However no matter what I do I cannot get a happy medium and the following problems persist:
- When in 42 chainring at front and 12-13 at rear the chain rubs against the big ring on the front.
- When in 53 chainring at the front and 23-21 at the rear there is an annoying rubbing noise from the chain catching on the rear mech.

The rear gears are shifting perfectly. The problems appears to be with the positioning of the chainset. Your suggestions will be very much appreciated as I am on the verge of reverting back to my old 8 speed STI's.

Thanks.
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Old 03-01-08, 07:41 PM   #2
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You are cross chaining. You should never use the small chain ring and the smallest cogs on your cassette. Likewise for big chain ring and the large cogs of cassette.

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Old 03-02-08, 09:11 AM   #3
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Normal cross chain issue with a 10-speed setup. If you are obsessed with using all your gears, get therapy.
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Old 03-02-08, 09:57 AM   #4
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Normal cross chain issue with a 10-speed setup. If you are obsessed with using all your gears, get therapy.
Therapy or barend shifters.
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Old 03-03-08, 07:11 AM   #5
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Thanks for your reply. I've used 8 speed STI for the last number of years and all the gears work fine. Is it really the case that not all gear ratios will work when using 10 speed?
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Old 03-03-08, 07:31 AM   #6
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it's not really a matter of wanting to use "all of his gears" most likely.
cross-chaining is the only way to get his lowest and highest gear ratios.

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Old 03-03-08, 07:39 AM   #7
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it's not really a matter of wanting to use "all of his gears" most likely.
cross-chaining is the only way to get his lowest and highest gear ratios.
Lowest is the small front, largest rear.
Highest is large front, smallest rear.

Cross chaining is small front/smallest rear and large front/largest rear, exactly what was described in the original post. There is an attitude about using all the gears on the bike because I paid for them, and no matter what any mechanic will tell them, they get frustrated. Similar to a relative of mine that always has the TV on because he pays for cable.
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Old 03-03-08, 11:30 AM   #8
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Hey mate,
I only asked if anyone has came accross this problem before and if they could suggest anything that might fix it. Given that my 8 speed STI's worked fine in all gears I assumed that a 10 speed groupset (An Upgrade!) would do the same. Thanks for your help (or is that sarcasm!).
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Old 03-03-08, 11:45 AM   #9
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I wouldn't think the cross chaining would be a lot worse between 8 speed and 10... However, I think I have read that the chain rings are slightly closer together for 10 speed than they are for 8 speed (I know the cogs on the cassette are). This would mean that given the same chain ring sizes, a small/small would be more likely to rub, since it has less of a deflection needed to have the chain hit the large chain ring.

For the other direction (big/big) I see no reason for it to be worse, unless the making the chain narrower makes it noisier in the extreme positions.

However, I know many people (including my LBS) recommend SRAM over Shimano chains... could this lead to a noise issue?
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Old 03-03-08, 11:50 AM   #10
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Given the closer cog spacing in virtually the same space as an 8-speed, yes...a 10-speed group is even less tolerant of cross-chaining and requires keeping a finer eye on adjustments.

The only fix for cross-chaining is to not do it, which is what Diesel meant by therapy. Sarcastic? Perhaps a bit, but also correct.
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Old 03-03-08, 01:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDan View Post
Lowest is the small front, largest rear.
Highest is large front, smallest rear.

Cross chaining is small front/smallest rear and large front/largest rear, exactly what was described in the original post. There is an attitude about using all the gears on the bike because I paid for them, and no matter what any mechanic will tell them, they get frustrated. Similar to a relative of mine that always has the TV on because he pays for cable.
apparently my brain wasn't working when I first woke up, on 2 hours of sleep.. lol
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Old 03-03-08, 02:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post
Given the closer cog spacing in virtually the same space as an 8-speed, yes...a 10-speed group is even less tolerant of cross-chaining and requires keeping a finer eye on adjustments.

The only fix for cross-chaining is to not do it, which is what Diesel meant by therapy. Sarcastic? Perhaps a bit, but also correct.
To elaborate- 8 vs 10-
8 speed uses 3.0MM thick spacers, whereas 10 speeds use a 2.35MM spacer. That's approx. 20% closer.
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Old 03-03-08, 02:06 PM   #13
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The geometry of a bike can affect which gearing combinations work without rubbing.

Sometimes trimming the front derailleur (moving the shifter partway) eliminates rubbing.

Sometimes tinkering with the setup a little longer, or giving the front derailleur a little bend can do the trick.

Sometimes you gotta live with what you got.

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Old 03-03-08, 07:42 PM   #14
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The issue is not the spacing in the rear, it's the spacing between the front chain rings.

To reinforce what the others have said, don't worry about the rubbing.
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Old 03-03-08, 07:52 PM   #15
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don't worry about the rubbing.
Don't ride with the rubbing if possible also, Possible changes if you want to cross-chain without rubbing
- get a narrower chain
- minimize the difference between the big and small chain ring

People advocate against cross chaining, but I'm going to go through this season cross chaining on my 50(big) chain ring, and drop to the 34 (granny gear) only for the hills. I'll see how that goes?
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Old 03-04-08, 08:06 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Little Darwin View Post
I wouldn't think the cross chaining would be a lot worse between 8 speed and 10... However, I think I have read that the chain rings are slightly closer together for 10 speed than they are for 8 speed (I know the cogs on the cassette are). This would mean that given the same chain ring sizes, a small/small would be more likely to rub, since it has less of a deflection needed to have the chain hit the large chain ring.

For the other direction (big/big) I see no reason for it to be worse, unless the making the chain narrower makes it noisier in the extreme positions.

However, I know many people (including my LBS) recommend SRAM over Shimano chains... could this lead to a noise issue?
Thanks for your reply. I've used SRAM chains in a 8 speed setup for many years with no problems. The funny thing is that i've gone for a Shimano 10 speed chain this time round. This might be part of the probem and I will consider changing. Thanks.
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