Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Replacing old square taper cranks

    I'm in the process of swapping out the cranks on a friend's the bike. The bike is a semi-abused Trek VW Limited Edition from 1996 or so. The old cranks were Sugino Impel and the new ones are also Sugino Impel. The problem is that I can't get the new cranks far enough up the BB spindles, so the front derailleur doesn't have enough reach for the largest chainring. I'm guessing I need a new BB with shorter spindles, right? In the past 10 years, have square taper cranks has gotten some sort of universal upgrade that?

  2. #2
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
    My Bikes
    1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
    Posts
    15,267
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Although all square spindles have a 2-degree taper, there are/were two different final cutoff widths. I am guessing from your post that the new cranks have the smaller size bore. If I am correct, forcing them onto the larger-width spindle is an invitation to crank failure, as well as the bad chainline you have already observed.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    705
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yeah, you need a shorter BB spindle. Older crank arms were more or less straight, and needed the wide spindles...newer ones have a sort of "S" bend offset, and use a much shorter spindle...

  4. #4
    cab horn
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1987 Bianchi Campione
    Posts
    28,295
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kramnnim View Post
    Yeah, you need a shorter BB spindle. Older crank arms were more or less straight, and needed the wide spindles...newer ones have a sort of "S" bend offset, and use a much shorter spindle...
    Dura ace square taper bb's used to come in 103 version. Now the smallest bb you can get is a 107. If anything bb's got longer, not shorter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galtman View Post
    I'm in the process of swapping out the cranks on a friend's the bike. The bike is a semi-abused Trek VW Limited Edition from 1996 or so. The old cranks were Sugino Impel and the new ones are also Sugino Impel. The problem is that I can't get the new cranks far enough up the BB spindles, so the front derailleur doesn't have enough reach for the largest chainring. I'm guessing I need a new BB with shorter spindles, right? In the past 10 years, have square taper cranks has gotten some sort of universal upgrade that?

    What length bb are you running right now?
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    705
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Um, the Dura-Ace crank that used the 103mm spindle was from around '96, older models used longer spindles...

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
    Last edited by kramnnim; 03-01-08 at 10:17 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Whatsisname's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    59
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  7. #7
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    an imposter living in the 35223
    Posts
    5,782
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    If anything bb's got longer, not shorter.
    I guess that's why Campy Record used to use 115mm spindles in the mid 70s-mid 80's, 111mm mid 80's-90's, and 102mm for their last square taper model
    72 special CNC ______ 72 Frejus (ala Legnano) _73 Holdsworth Record
    80 Ranson__________ 80 unknown French____ 83 Trek 600 (620 styled)
    85 Gianni Motta_____ 90 Miele Gara ________ 02 Casati Dardo #1
    02 Casati Dardo #2 __ 03 Casati Dardo ______ 08 BF IRO (fixed/SS)
    09 Dogma FPX magn_ 10 Vassago Fisticuff (IGH)

    For Sale: _________ 78 Raleigh Professional __ 82 Peugeot PXN10
    85 Trek 560_______ 88 Guerciotti GLX

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    What length bb are you running right now?
    Current bb is 113mm.

    And now I'm further confused by reading this on Sheldon Brown's website:

    "If you install an ISO crank on a J.I.S. spindle, it will sit about 4.5 mm farther out than it would on an ISO spindle of the same length.

    Confersely, if you install a J.I.S. crank on an ISO spindle, it will wind up about 4.5 mm farther in than it would on a J.I.S spindle of the same length."

    The problem I'm having sounds like the first example, but I know the new cranks are JIS, so if the old bb was ISO, I'd be having the opposite problem. Has there been a change in JIS standard? Or do the old cranks just have a slightly narrower boring than the new ones?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    St Peters, Missouri
    My Bikes
    Rans Enduro Sport, Hase Kettweisel Tandem, Merin Bear Valley beater bike
    Posts
    24,005
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just for fun, measure the distance between your rear dropouts.

    I'm looking in last year's QBP catalogue and it says Sugino Impel 150X-154-158 series cranks should take a 110/113 BB spindle length. The rule of thumb is you use the shorter spindle with 130mm dropouts and the wider with 135mm dropouts.

    If your front derailleur isn't reaching I'm thinking that your chainline is way off. How much space do you have between the chainrings and the chain stay? I'm thinking you have something goofy going on but, off the top of my head, I can't think of what it might be.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Dropouts are 135.

  11. #11
    Si Senior dbg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Naperville, Illinois
    My Bikes
    Too Numerous (not)
    Posts
    2,444
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Measure your spindle length and compare it with what's spec'ed for the new crank. I sure wouldn't just assume that 10 year newer cranks would automatically fit the old BB spindle length. You might need a new BB.
    David Green, Naperville, IL USA "The older I get, the better I used to be" --Lee Trevino

  12. #12
    Si Senior dbg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Naperville, Illinois
    My Bikes
    Too Numerous (not)
    Posts
    2,444
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    oops. sorry. missed your last post. my next step would be some trial and error on different BB's from my junk drawer.
    David Green, Naperville, IL USA "The older I get, the better I used to be" --Lee Trevino

  13. #13
    Geek Extraordinaire sivat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Advantage Fixed Conversion; Specialized Stumpjumper FS Hardtail
    Posts
    1,769
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For the record, 103mm bottom brackets are still available from sugino. I believe campy still makes their 102mm bb as well. Aside from their track cranks, sugino has never used the ISO standard, so that probably isn't your problem. Your cranks are definitely JIS as are most of the replacement bottom brackets available.
    The problem may be that the older cranks had been overtightened a bit and sat further up the spindle than the new cranks. If that is the case, you may just need to re-adjust the limit screws on the front derailleur. You didn't mention if you had don't that, so I apologize if you've already tried that.
    Sheldon's site says the correct length is 110-113, so the easiest thing to do may be to get a new 110mm bottom bracket. I recommend this one but there is both a cheaper version, and a lighter, more expensive version.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

    Sintesi Conversion Serotta Track

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I guess the best way to figure it out is to go get a 110 and a 113 bb and see which one works. I'll try installing the 110 first because the old 113 doesn't seem to be the right size. One of the two will be right. I hope.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
    My Bikes
    86 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.
    Posts
    7,376
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Does this bike have the cup/cone type spindle or a cartridge BB? If the former, AND you serviced the bearings, maybe you installed the spindle backwards? Many of them have an offset, where the DS is longer than the NDS.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •