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  1. #1
    Mr. Cellophane RainmanP's Avatar
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    13T vs 11T Pulleys

    Steve's reply to my 39T chainring question reminded me of a question I wanted to ask. In reading about the new triples that are out (Dura Ace and Record) and their accompanying components, I noted that one of the new rear ders has 13T pulleys. I assume that more teeth allow the pulleys to turn slightly slower, presumably reducing wear, etc., etc.. Any other thoughts on using 13T pulleys? Is it possible to retro fit other ders with them? I assume the diameter would have to be greater. Is there any reason to do such a retro fit?

    Regarding sealed bearing pulleys, whether 11T or 13T, is there a brand that is considered better?
    Regards,
    Raymond
    If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!

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    13 tooth pulleys? Are you sure? Derailleur pulleys always used to be 6 or 7 teeth (if my memory serves me right). Of course, Huret used to make pulleys which had no teeth, but that's ancient history, now. 13 teeth will be larger than the high gear cogs on most road bikes today (something like 1 1/2" diameter!!)
    Je vais à vélo, donc je suis!

  3. #3
    Mr. Cellophane RainmanP's Avatar
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    D*Alex, that's what I was thinking. Yet in a half page write up in the latest Velo News on the new DA and Record triples and associated ders they specifically mention that one of the rear ders has 13T pulleys. Can't remember which one off the top of my head.

    I would think that because the diameter is larger one probably cannot retro fit other ders with the larger pulleys.

    On a possibly related note, I had asked in another thread about the pulley noise when in the big ring. The answer was increased chain tension. I checked this morning and, sure enough, when I shifted to smaller cogs the noise lessened. Unfortunately, I seldom get past 52-18 so I don't get to hear the silence.
    Last edited by RainmanP; 12-06-01 at 06:27 AM.
    If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!

  4. #4
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Perhaps 11T pulleys do not have 11 teeth (and therefore 5.5"/pi = 1.75" diameter!) , but are designed specifically for 11T high-gear cogs.

  5. #5
    Mr. Cellophane RainmanP's Avatar
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    You are correct John E, the diameter looks like about 1.75"; I'd have to take one off to get a more exact measurement. So a 13 would be about 6.5/pi=2" approx. Hard to tell if there is enough clearance for that. The question still remains on the table - do the extra teeth have a significant advantage or is it marketing hype?

    Also any suggestions on brand of sealed bearing pulleys?
    Thanks,
    Raymond
    If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!

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    Senior Mem. & Trail Sage steve33's Avatar
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    Rainmanp.

    The 13's would have a larger dia. and possibly might not be compatible with some der.'s.

    I still have a pair of old sun tours that have only 10 and I noticed the jockey --- or the pully that's nearest the free wheel is pretty badly worn.

    The larger the dia. the slower the wear would be. If I were going to buy some new ones I think in general I would go with the 11 tooth, unless someone had experience with the 13's on a like derailuer to mine, and knew they would work.

    On brand, there are so many out there that would be hard.
    I think again I would go with an alloy type rather than the resin like my old sun tours, as I recall the ones I have dont have a lot of miles on them and they are worn pretty badly, but then they probably came off my old MT.bike.

    I know I had a pair on the Bianchi several years old when I sold it, they had a lot of miles on them but were still in good condition.

    Anyway try a pair you will be suprised at the diffrence, not just the noise, but the reduced friction, gives you a free 1 - 2 miles an hour, I allways noticed it the most on the hills, where every little bit helps.

    Now that I have talked myself into it, doggone it, im going to have to buy a new pair, mine are to worn to use. #@***


    Happy Trails....
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    According to Shimano's site, DA is still coming with 11T pulleys. However, it would not surprise me in the least if they introduced their "innovative" 13T pulleys and encouraged everyone to replace their "out of date" derailleurs with the newer ones. The only other reason I can think of for using larger pulleys is to use a little more chain w/o increasing cage length. This would be more suitable for MTBs as they typically run a wider range of gears. Who knows what the big S will dream up next to get us to replace gear that doesn't need replacing.

    Is it really possible to wear a DA rr. der out? Other than pulleys, I would think they would last damn near forever.

  8. #8
    Mr. Cellophane RainmanP's Avatar
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    Just for grins I went to Performance Bike and looked up the DA Triple rear der. Sure enough, the description says 13T pulleys.
    If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!

  9. #9
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Changing the jockey wheel size could be a legitimate way to match a given derailleur to a particular cogset. A 13-26 cogset with an 11T jockey pulley would have about the same cog-to-jockey distance as an 11-24 with a 13T jockey. As others have mentioned, a larger pulley implies not only the closer chain coupling mentioned above, but also longer pulley and bearing life and more chain.

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    After doing some digging, here is the scoop per Shimano's Euro website (which I find to be far superior to the US one) The 13 tooth pulleys are to shorten the cage length on the GS capacity derailleur "for better looks as a road component forum." The larger pulleys and slightly longer cage allow for a total capacity of 38T instead of 29T for the standard SGS length. Looks like the 13T pulleys are not retrofittable but are also not a required element for non-triple users.

    Cheers
    G

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geronimo View Post
    According to Shimano's site, DA is still coming with 11T pulleys. However, it would not surprise me in the least if they introduced their "innovative" 13T pulleys and encouraged everyone to replace their "out of date" derailleurs with the newer ones. The only other reason I can think of for using larger pulleys is to use a little more chain w/o increasing cage length. This would be more suitable for MTBs as they typically run a wider range of gears. Who knows what the big S will dream up next to get us to replace gear that doesn't need replacing.

    Is it really possible to wear a DA rr. der out? Other than pulleys, I would think they would last damn near forever.
    I have a shimanio tourney tx75 it has 13t on it was wondering if could go down to 11t on without having a issue

  12. #12
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Shimano, on lower end RD's use a bigger still pulley (suspect it aids slack chain wrap without a bit longer cage )

    any how Tacx , for Campag , has a 10t, and for Shimano top line RDs an 11t.

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    Do you think I would gain or lose anything by changing fro 13t to 11t on my mtb just wondering what to do to put some better pulleys on this tx75 don't have big cash to drop in it to buy a high end one and just want to make so improvements as I can

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfree11vin View Post
    I have a shimanio tourney tx75 it has 13t on it was wondering if could go down to 11t on without having a issue
    It will work fine, but it will look weird. Better off just getting a new RD if you need new pulleys... if you don't need new pulleys, no reason to swap them out. Try taking them apart, cleaning, and regreasing before you give up the ghost; unless of course the teeth are worn down.

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    Was just think going to alloy instead of the carbon/plastic ones

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    Pulleys are generally an insignificant factor when it comes to wear, durability, cost, efficiency or weight. If what you have is working it's no benefit to changing except under the rare circumstance that it may match the cassette better.
    There's no such thing as a routine repair.

    Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

    If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

    Please take the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfree11vin View Post
    Was just think going to alloy instead of the carbon/plastic ones
    It's mostly an aesthetic gain, and a noisy one at that. If you are on a budget, just keep what you have and relube it. Otherwise, you are just throwing money at a non-problem. I'd take a microshift RD over a cheap Shimano into level one with the 13t pulleys. Save your money and watch for a good sale or something used.

  18. #18
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    Thanks for the info the noise thing was one thing I was wondering about to so thanks agian

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfree11vin View Post
    Thanks for the info the noise thing was one thing I was wondering about to so thanks agian
    I had another odd issue with mine, I have the aluminum pulley that Performance Bike sells... it worked fine with my old Shimano chain but when I replaced it a couple of weeks later with a KMC chain I found that the chain started slipping off of the bottom pulley while in the extreme cross-chain gears. Obviously, I don't ride in that gearing, but it was never an issue until I had that chain and pulley combo and I'll probably switch back to the plastic pulley because of it. I'll experiment for a while first and see what happens. It's probably a non-issue with a double crank but a potential problem with a triple.

    The noise isn't terrible, but it is noticeably louder (especially in the stand). You can block it out while riding.

  20. #20
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    had Sun Race Plastic Pulleys on My Brompton Chain tensioner on my AW3 Brompton M3L.

    replaced them with a sealed bearing Tacx pulley of Nylon ,and it is quieter .

    Not all 'plastics' are the same , in summation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by headloss View Post
    I had another odd issue with mine, I have the aluminum pulley that Performance Bike sells... it worked fine with my old Shimano chain but when I replaced it a couple of weeks later with a KMC chain I found that the chain started slipping off of the bottom pulley while in the extreme cross-chain gears. Obviously, I don't ride in that gearing, but it was never an issue until I had that chain and pulley combo and I'll probably switch back to the plastic pulley because of it. I'll experiment for a while first and see what happens. It's probably a non-issue with a double crank but a potential problem with a triple.

    The noise isn't terrible, but it is noticeably louder (especially in the stand). You can block it out while riding.
    Interesting. It could be that the plastic pulleys have a bit more flex so that the teeth will bend a bit to line up with the chain when cross-chained. Combine that with a new chain, which will have a lot less lateral play in it than an old, worn chain, and there might be enough sideways force at the lower pulley to let the chain jump off.
    Last edited by Metaluna; 09-23-14 at 03:32 PM.

  22. #22
    Gammal cyklist Reynolds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve33 View Post
    the reduced friction, gives you a free 1 - 2 miles an hour,


    Also, record zombie thread?

  23. #23
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    gerinimo

    I tend to agree with you on your idea that if they go to a 13 tooth jockey wheel, which of course will be "the latest thing" the qullible will drop big buck to have 'the latest thing"!!!!

    Some sales engineer probably came up with this since mfgs are wearing out their welcome by ever increasing the number of sprockets in the rear cluster. Anything to sell something new!!!

  24. #24
    Senior Member Wilfred Laurier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve33 View Post
    the reduced friction, gives you a free 1 - 2 miles an hour,
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
    i know

    so obvious that it would make such a difference
    steve33 shouldnt even have to tell us

    i once replaced both pulleys with a single 34 tooth chainring
    and it made such a dramatic difference
    i didnt have to pedal any more
    but i was going backwards

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