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  1. #1
    D.G.W Hedges mrhedges's Avatar
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    36 spoke count vs 32

    I'm looking to get a new wheelset for communting and light touring. Looking at the open pros. they seem perfect strong but light. I really want the 36 spoke count for added strenth but bicycle wheel warehouse has a sale on 32 spoke open pr wheels laced to ultegra. what do you think? how much diffrent are 4 spokes?

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    It really depends on how much weight you'll have on the bike and how rough the roads are.
    36 spoke wheels really are more durable. I like Open Pro rims and have used them for commuting but for heavy touring a stronger rim may be needed.

    Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhedges View Post
    I'm looking to get a new wheelset for communting and light touring. Looking at the open pros. they seem perfect strong but light. I really want the 36 spoke count for added strenth but bicycle wheel warehouse has a sale on 32 spoke open pr wheels laced to ultegra. what do you think? how much diffrent are 4 spokes?
    Open pros are massively overrated, you can get something cheaper and stronger than it, for example Alex DA28. I'm still mystified as to why this mediocre rim keeps being suggested and revelled in nearly every rim thread.

    If you're going to tour as well look into the Alex dv30 - triple wall rim, bulletproof.

    P.S Unless you're going to retension + balance the (nashbar) wheel yourself, you will not get the durability a good handbuilt wheelset will give you.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    Open pros are massively overrated, you can get something cheaper and stronger than it, for example Alex DA28. I'm still mystified as to why this mediocre rim keeps being suggested and revelled in nearly every rim thread.
    Because most people have nothing but exceptional experience with Open Pro. Why do you think it keeps getting suggested so much!!! Because people have graet experiences.

    If it was bad, don't you think it would get negative responses?
    You're just trying to start an argument to show how smart you are.

  5. #5
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    My experience of 32h OpenPro laced to Ultegra is that it can be destroyed by myself on a crappy road. Note however, that I weigh 205lbs and I probably carry another 20lbs of crap with me when I commute. I have used these rims for years without any trouble (even when I was heavier than I am now), but on a crappy road 32h just doesn't cut it.

    I now have a 36h laced to Ultegra but I haven't put enough miles on it to comment yet.

    PS- This is all talking about rear wheels on a 9 speed bike. 32h has been picture perfect in the front.
    PPS- I hear 36h rims are 30% stronger than 32h rims, but I am not sure how that is calculated.

  6. #6
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanSeven View Post
    Because most people have nothing but exceptional experience with Open Pro. Why do you think it keeps getting suggested so much!!! Because people have graet experiences.

    If it was bad, don't you think it would get negative responses?
    There have been negative responses. Search the road forum and you will find posts about cracked eyelets, loose pins at the joint, etc. It seems that they don't fail any more than the other rims, but not necessarily any less.

  7. #7
    D.G.W Hedges mrhedges's Avatar
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    Open pros are massively overrated, you can get something cheaper and stronger than it, for example Alex DA28. I'm still mystified as to why this mediocre rim keeps being suggested and revelled in nearly every rim thread.
    why do you think they are overated?

    how about other mavic rims? I guess open pros seem slick and fast not necessarly the two best things when you are communting and touring.

    I've heard mixed things about the alex rims I had a set they held up ok but they were a pain to get tires on and off they were also machine built.

    p.s i only weight 150 I'm not sure how much weight i'm going to carry at most 20 pounds. I wish bikes had a max dry weight like motorcycles do...
    Last edited by mrhedges; 06-05-08 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    FWIW, I've broken a bunch of spokes on 32H laced rims (Sapim race laced to Open Pro) but have never broken a 36H hole laced rim, including Sapim race laced to Open Pro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhedges View Post
    how about other mavic rims? I guess open pros seem slick and fast not necessarly the two best things when you are communting and touring.
    I believe that the A719 is their premier touring rim while the A319 is their budget touring rim. However, I doubt you would have any trouble with light touring on a 36h OpenPro.

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    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    You might also consider the Velocity Dyad if you'll be using 28mm+ tires. At a claimed 480 grams with a pretty large cross-section and decent-sized brake surfaces, it looks like a good blend of weight & strength. I worked on some the other day... not bad. They're also reasonably priced.

    The Open Pro is on my own list of possible rims for a fast commuting bike I might build, probably in the Ceramic version for great braking and wearout resistance. At your weight, if they're built well, I wouldn't be too concerned about the strength except in unusual situations, but it couldn't hurt to put your load on your front wheel by using lowrider front racks. The front wheel is the strong one and it has an easy life. Make it pull its weight

    FWIW, I've broken a bunch of spokes on 32H laced rims (Sapim race laced to Open Pro) but have never broken a 36H hole laced rim, including Sapim race laced to Open Pro.
    As a general trend, I've seen most of our customers getting good results with 32-spoke wheels hand-built with DT Swiss spokes, and so have I myself. Some of these bikes have wheelsets that are 10+ years old and still intrepidly racking up the miles on the same spokes. When the spokes last long enough that the hubs become obsolete (6-speed Dura Ace, anyone?), I think that's Good Enough For Me™

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechBgon View Post


    As a general trend, I've seen most of our customers getting good results with 32-spoke wheels hand-built with DT Swiss spokes, and so have I myself. Some of these bikes have wheelsets that are 10+ years old and still intrepidly racking up the miles on the same spokes. When the spokes last long enough that the hubs become obsolete (6-speed Dura Ace, anyone?), I think that's Good Enough For Me™
    The wheels were hand built and re-tensioned several times by the National Team's head mechanic, so it wasn't build quality, although it may have been a bum batch of spokes as all broke in the exact same place, front and rear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhedges View Post
    I'm looking to get a new wheelset for communting and light touring. Looking at the open pros. they seem perfect strong but light. I really want the 36 spoke count for added strenth but bicycle wheel warehouse has a sale on 32 spoke open pr wheels laced to ultegra. what do you think? how much diffrent are 4 spokes?
    I have a set of Velocity's laced to Ultegra Hubs. 32 spoke Aerohead on the front, and a 36 spoke Deep-V on the back. I weigh about 225, and these things are awesome!

    I can not speak about Open Pros, originally I set out to buy this same set of wheels with OP rims, but was advised by Peter White that he would not warranty a set to a guy my size. Don't really know if he was just trying to up- sell me or not. However I definitely am pleased with the Velocitys never the less!

  13. #13
    D.G.W Hedges mrhedges's Avatar
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    are all aero rims hard to get tires on and off? I guess i just don't like those things they look goofy. I'll probably get someone local to build me a set of open pros 36 hole with DT spokes. It will probably be extra money but its good to support your local mechanics.

    I think the open pros will hold up if they are built right and have decent spokes. thanks everyone for weighting in. I'll look into the a719.

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    Another vote for Velocity - Dyad or Deep V. I thought that I had heard that Mavic was taking the A719 out of their line and replacing it with the 319.

  15. #15
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrhedges View Post
    p.s i only weight 150 I'm not sure how much weight i'm going to carry at most 20 pounds. I wish bikes had a max dry weight like motorcycles do...
    You're looking at 190 lbs total weight. Don't worry about it! Just about anything (properly tensioned) will work for you.
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  16. #16
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    "it may have been a bum batch of spokes as all broke in the exact same place, front and rear." QUOTE.


    QUESTION:

    Where these DB or plain gauge?

    Regards,
    J T
    Last edited by J T CUNNINGHAM; 06-06-08 at 06:04 PM.

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    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    IMHO the Open Pro is not the rim for touring or bad road commuting at any spoke count. The Open Pro is a light duty race rim or the ideal fast training rim for 23mm tires and a quick bike. Its popular because its light, has a welded seam and machined brake tracks.

    Heavier riders, touring bikes and commuters need a stronger rim. Rims with a deeper cross section provide more radial strength and resist deflections better. Something like the Velocity Deep Vee's or Mavic CXP-33 is probably a better choice.

    For those who asked, tires still mount easily on the Mavic CXP-33.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Deanster04's Avatar
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    Exactly 4 is the difference.
    If the deal is really good go for it. I have a set of 36H and 32H open pro wheels for my XC bike (which takes a pretty good pounding) and no real difference. If I was going to do fully loaded touring I would use the 36H, otherwise...mas y menos!
    Open pro are light but extremly strong rims. They have double eyelets which resist high stress points on the rim and will last longer than single eyelet rims no matter how deep the rim cross section.
    If you want ultimate strength go for the DT Swiss RR1.2 rims deep V with double eyelet. If you are going touring then you would want to use a larger diameter road tire. I use Conti 4 seasons 25s and the Contact 28 or twister 32 for my XC bike. Go to DT Swiss website and look at the rims for touring.
    Last edited by Deanster04; 06-06-08 at 09:58 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Deanster04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    There have been negative responses. Search the road forum and you will find posts about cracked eyelets, loose pins at the joint, etc. It seems that they don't fail any more than the other rims, but not necessarily any less.
    I think you are talking about something other than the Mavic OpenPro...they are welded and there is no pin at the joint because there is no real joint. I just rebuilt a set of wheels for a friend with open pro rims that had in excess of 40K miles. No problems other than the fact the sidewalls were getting quite thin and there was visible thinning of the spokes where they crossed. Absolutely no cracks or pulled eyelets. Roger and I love to ride dirt roads so the wheels weren't babied at all. Over tensioning wheels is usually the culprit for cracking or pulled eyelets on double eyelet wheels. I have a set of early open pro rims built on campy hubs that are nearing 20 K with no problems. My XC bike has open pro rims and each set has more than 10 K of pretty hard riding (I ride 28 to 38 tires on these rims).

  20. #20
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    ^ My understanding is that they are pinned before they are welded, so the pin or whatever it is comes loose and makes an annoying noise. It doesn't affect the durability since it's just there to hold it in place for the welding, but it's annoying when it comes lose and rattles around. I don't have Open Pros, but one of my Reflex rims does it and two of my family's Open 4 CD rims did it. It seems to be a Mavic Trademark.

    You're probably right that overtensioned spokes probably causes cracked eyelets, but that's probably the case in most any rim by any brand. To this day, I swear that Sun has the smoothest seems of all the brands I have tried. Even Mavic welded seems are a little bumpy if you look closely.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J T CUNNINGHAM View Post
    "it may have been a bum batch of spokes as all broke in the exact same place, front and rear." QUOTE.


    QUESTION:

    Where these DB or plain gauge?

    Regards,
    J T
    DB Sapim Race.

  22. #22
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    I have been using 32 spokes front and rear on my Bianchi (Campagnolo Omega rims, DT spokes, ca. 1980 Campagnolo Gran Sport hubs) with no problems, but a heavier rider may want to consider a 36-spoke rear wheel. I still have very serious reservations about the modern trend toward paired spokes and reduced spoke counts, which goes against principles of mechanical engineering -- as the number of spokes decreases, so does the wheel's strength-to-weight ratio. Also, if you care about your hub flange, avoid radial lacing.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
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  23. #23
    Senior Member mechBgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    ^ My understanding is that they are pinned before they are welded, so the pin or whatever it is comes loose and makes an annoying noise. It doesn't affect the durability since it's just there to hold it in place for the welding, but it's annoying when it comes lose and rattles around. I don't have Open Pros, but one of my Reflex rims does it and two of my family's Open 4 CD rims did it. It seems to be a Mavic Trademark.
    They haven't made Reflex clinchers or Open 4s for years. If you do have a rim that develops sleeve click like that, one solution is to inject the sleeve area with expanding foam, the stuff used to seal cracks in house walls. To do so, you might need to drill a small access hole in that part of the rim to slip in the injection straw, if it's a double-eyelet type of rim. I haven't had to do that for years, but it's a handy trick when you need it.

    Some people use another alternative: use a sharp nail as a punch to tack down the sleeve from the bed of the rim.

  24. #24
    Senior Member jaxgtr's Avatar
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    I used to pop spokes left and right when riding 32 spoke count. I am 300 lbs and since moving to 36 spoke 14g 3x, Mavic A119 on hybrid and Deep V's on Road, nary a problem.

    I would not recommend the A119 for what your doing, but I would not have any issue buying the A719, Dyad or another set of Deep V's for my hybrid as long as they were hand built by the guy that has built my current wheel sets.
    Brian | 2013 Cannondale SuperSix 5 | 2003 Trek 7300 | 2011 Raleigh Record Ace - Steel is real
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