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Old 12-23-03, 08:20 AM   #1
LittleBigMan
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No, you can't do that (Beatles)

Just liked the Beatles' song touch. It echoed in my hollow skull...

Anyway, I know manufacturers try to protect themselves, but when they say, "no, you can't mix parts," are they always right? I realize some things are just incompatible, but a few years back (?) my integrated brake/shifters went totally south, and I didn't have the money to replace them. I was not about to stop riding, so I had to figure something out.

I bought a very old Schwinn Super Sport from a thrift shop for $15 and cannibalized the old-fashioned friction shifters from it. I've been using them ever since on my Trek 1200 road bike.

In many ways I actually like them better than the original equipment for several reasons:

1) Seemed like I was always adjusting them, they had to be so precise to work properly. But the Schwinn shifters are very forgiving about that. The derailleurs have to be way out of adjustment before I have a problem, due to the fact that any slack is taken up by slight changes in shift lever position.

2) Shifting put more stress on the cables due to the jerking motion of the derailleurs (mainly front,) causing me to go through cables more often on my triple. But the Schwinn shifters are smooth and gentle, and it seems I don't have to replace cables as often.

3) Changing a cable was a real pain, the adjustments took me forever and it seemed I never got it quite right. But the Schwinn shifters seem to let me throw on a cable and go, almost no adjustment.

Any thoughts, advice?
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Old 12-23-03, 05:59 PM   #2
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I'm not the hugest fan of stem shifters, but if they work and you're happy with the setup, more power to ya. Indexed/integrated shifters are nice, but they're also touchy, and Shimano's total lack of parts support for them is extremely aggrevating. Integration and groups are more about marketing than manufacturers covering their rear.
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Old 12-23-03, 06:55 PM   #3
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Ever wonder why some of the best touring bikes sold today are still equipped with bar-end friction shifters...?
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Old 12-23-03, 08:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fixer
Ever wonder why some of the best touring bikes sold today are still equipped with bar-end friction shifters...?
I did not know this very welcome bit of information. I suppose the list is very short and esoteric and includes Rivendell. I love nonindexed ratcheted SunTour barcons for commuting and cyclocross.
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Old 12-23-03, 09:34 PM   #5
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Barcons on touring bikes?

1 reason... BArcons were easier to use than DTS.

In this modern age of STI there is not much reason to use either barcon or DTS unless you:

1) Are a tri-geek and need the barcons on your aero-bars
2) A retro geek
3) can't read installation manuals and install STI correctly.

P.S. Never broke a shifter cable ever in my life even on my DTS. Never heard such a wierd story about breaking a cable because of undue stress caused by the shifters.

Sounds like cheap cables or improper setup and originator if thread already admits to not being able to install cables correctly...

Also some of the STI parts are avail... then again I've never had an STI break either... And I'm about to chaulk up 10,000 miles this year on them!
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Old 12-23-03, 11:01 PM   #6
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Not only Rivendell bicycles, but also the Trek 520 and Bruce Gordon bicycles use bar-end shifters... which, by the way, work in indexed mode (their default) as well as friction.

Amongst their advantages:
- the front works in friction, but with a light touch, so you can fine-tune the derailleur position and use almost any ring you want;
- simpler to maintain, especially in snow, mud...

Ergo (from Campagnolo) also shifts the front derailleur in friction -- or quasi-friction.


As far as quickness of use, it's personal. I find that STI and Ergo are easier from the hoods, but bar-ends are easier to use from the drops. And since I ride from the drops...

Regards,
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Old 12-24-03, 07:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prestonjb
Barcons on touring bikes?

1 reason... BArcons were easier to use than DTS.

In this modern age of STI there is not much reason to use either barcon or DTS unless you:

1) Are a tri-geek and need the barcons on your aero-bars
2) A retro geek
3) can't read installation manuals and install STI correctly.

P.S. Never broke a shifter cable ever in my life even on my DTS. Never heard such a wierd story about breaking a cable because of undue stress caused by the shifters.

Sounds like cheap cables or improper setup and originator if thread already admits to not being able to install cables correctly...

Also some of the STI parts are avail... then again I've never had an STI break either... And I'm about to chaulk up 10,000 miles this year on them!
You demonstrate a rather narrow view but yet a wide gap in knowledge.
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Old 12-24-03, 07:48 AM   #8
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Pre Ergo/Sti you COULD do that. didn't matter who
built what, it all worked together.
LBM, somewhere in the thread the shifters evolved to
Stem shifters, is this correct?
Alot of older racers (1970s era) used barcons and
still do, most reasons stated very aptly by mgagnonlv.
I do agree that out of adjustment derailleur is easier to
compensate for with friction shifting, sure it may be a
bit slower but try feathering a indexed shift.
just my .02 worth.
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Old 12-24-03, 02:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prestonjb
In this modern age of STI there is not much reason to use either barcon or DTS unless you:

1) Are a tri-geek and need the barcons on your aero-bars
2) A retro geek
3) can't read installation manuals and install STI correctly.
Just refer to me as a, "geek-geek."

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Old 12-24-03, 05:35 PM   #10
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friction mode

As I have mentioned in the past, front derailleur indexing, such as in RapidFire or STI, is a significant engineering blunder and a major frustration for anyone who values being able to fine-tune the cage position over the chain and to modulate the shift action to reduce the chance of an overshift. Rear indexing is fine for those who like it, but I have never seen any real advantage to it.
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