Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 50
  1. #1
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Snowy midwest
    Posts
    5,392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Plea: Fellow wrenches, please grease the tough stuff

    Hey guys, you know from working on old bikes that eventually what you do is going to be worked on by somebody else somewhere down the line - and that might be 25 years from now.

    You would think with all that is known today that everybody would be making liberal use of grease to keep parts from melting together, but I still find stuff dry as a bone and corroding together. It takes a lot of tricks, chemicals, muscle, time, swearing, and praying to get some of this stuff apart and back into workable condition.

    After struggling with frozen headsets and pedals this weekend, let me encourage everybody to PLEASE:

    1. grease the stem and stem bolt
    2. grease pedal bolts. Don't over-tighten
    3. grease seat post
    4. grease any point where aluminum comes in contact with steel.


    Also, remember not to oil before tightening bolts. Oiling allows you to overtighten and when the oil disepates, it is really tough to get the parts to budge. If you want to oil for corrosion protection, do it AFTER you assemble. IMO, every screw and bolt end should have a wipe of grease to keep it from corroding.

    Some future wrench will surely notice your work and thank you profusely. Be a cool cat and think of the next wrench. Who knows... it might come back to you for work years from now.
    Last edited by mike; 06-08-08 at 06:32 AM.
    Mike

  2. #2
    cab horn
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1987 Bianchi Campione
    Posts
    28,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Greaser or not, 25 years from now stuff is going to be seized - especially if the bike is being ridden.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  3. #3
    26r grudgemonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    merica
    My Bikes
    road, hardtail, fs, streetbeater
    Posts
    273
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I completely dissemble every part and bolt on bikes when I am not riding them to prevent this from happening. You can never be too careful

  4. #4
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Snowy midwest
    Posts
    5,392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    Greaser or not, 25 years from now stuff is going to be seized - especially if the bike is being ridden.

    This is not necessarily so. 25 years ago was 1983. Not so long ago really in bike years. I work on bikes a lot older than that that are not seized - especially if some thoughtful mechanic properly greased the parts.
    Mike

  5. #5
    cab horn
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1987 Bianchi Campione
    Posts
    28,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    I work on bikes a lot older than that that are not seized - especially if some thoughtful mechanic properly greased the parts.
    Not doubting your claims, but i've worked on bikes a lot younger than 25 years and parts have been seized - even with adequate grease application.

    I'm not saying your situation is impossible, but when you have Toronto winters, snow, ice and wetness all year around unless you're doing post #3 or are exceptionally on top your mainteance. Stuff -will- seize, regardless of many tons of grease was used on the bolt/nut/nipple etc to begin with.

    Although I do understand the frustration - which is the main point of #1 anyways. K, nitpicking off.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  6. #6
    Pwnerer Wordbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
    My Bikes
    Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
    Posts
    2,880
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why bother when removing stuck components pays shop rates?

    I thank the previous mechanics that don't use grease, keeps folks like us in the know in business.
    Quote Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
    Ski, bike and wish I was gay.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Surly Pacer with full Ultegra
    Posts
    1,016
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    Also, remember not to oil before tightening bolts. Oiling allows you to overtighten and when the oil disepates, it is really tough to get the parts to budge.
    Huh? Oiling allows you to CORRECTLY and ACCURATELY tighten the bolts with a torque wrench. That said, I cover bolts with anti-seize.

  8. #8
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Anti-seize is somewhat better than grease for longer term protection. The major issues is galvonic corrosion which occurs when two dissimilar metals are in contact with one another in an electrolytic solution (i.e. dirty water). Anti-seize keeps the water out and does not break down under more conditons than most greases.

  9. #9
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Snowy midwest
    Posts
    5,392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by strygaldwir View Post
    Anti-seize is somewhat better than grease for longer term protection. The major issues is galvonic corrosion which occurs when two dissimilar metals are in contact with one another in an electrolytic solution (i.e. dirty water). Anti-seize keeps the water out and does not break down under more conditons than most greases.
    Good point. I don't have anti-sieze in my workshop, but I will pick some up next time I go shopping. Any suggestions as to brand, type, etc?
    Mike

  10. #10
    Senior Member buddyp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    washington dc
    My Bikes
    derosa, bianchi, fuji, panasonic, jamis
    Posts
    311
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    Good point. I don't have anti-sieze in my workshop, but I will pick some up next time I go shopping. Any suggestions as to brand, type, etc?
    for bike purposes any kind will do.

  11. #11
    Scott n4zou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    My Bikes
    Too Many
    Posts
    2,393
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    Greaser or not, 25 years from now stuff is going to be seized - especially if the bike is being ridden.
    They wont if you apply anti-seize to the threaded surfaces. If you use anti-seize an archaeologist in a 1,000 years could easily dissemble the parts.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.bikeforums.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=57360&dateline=1197386754[/SIGPIC]
    It's easier to pick a Yankee tourist than a bail of cotton.

  12. #12
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Southern Florida
    My Bikes
    http://www.theheadbadge.com
    Posts
    22,729
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Amen, Mike! I cannot think of a single bike I've seen sold by a local bike shop that has been properly prepped in this fashion. Take it out of the box, put the parts on, and throw it on the floor is the mentality.

    That said, I've seen posts and stems in battered VLW's - posts that were greased 35+ years ago - slide out with hardly a issue. The grease might have deteriorated to an extent in the meantime, but it still served its purpose without issue.

    Likewise, I've seen lightly-used steel Treks that are no less then 15 years old with permanently jammed stems and a few other stiff assemblies, thanks to sloppy, careless assembly.

    I can see the future frustration...

    -Kurt

  13. #13
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In Ebritated
    Posts
    6,557
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by grudgemonkey View Post
    I completely dissemble every part and bolt on bikes when I am not riding them to prevent this from happening. You can never be too careful
    I go one step further and pack it in cosmoline.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A lot of the shops dictate what the mechanics are permitted to do in prepping a bike - it's all about the efficiency and the bottom line. For example, one place I know, the mechs aren't allowed to do anything to the wheels of a new bike beyond lateral truing -- so any hops or flat spots that would require taking off the tire go unattended.

  15. #15
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Southern Florida
    My Bikes
    http://www.theheadbadge.com
    Posts
    22,729
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I hesitate to ask what their attitude towards warranty repair is. "Buy it and get lost," eh?

    -Kurt

  16. #16
    26r grudgemonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    merica
    My Bikes
    road, hardtail, fs, streetbeater
    Posts
    273
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dobber View Post
    I go one step further and pack it in cosmoline.
    I have a sealed oxygen-free clean room in my basement 40' underground.

  17. #17
    tinker madman451's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
    My Bikes
    Schwinn World, MOAB, Varsity; Trek 820, Miyata Five-Twelve rebuild
    Posts
    64
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Recently there was a customer who ended up paying $70 in order to put on a bottle cage because the bolt was siezed in the frame, had to be drilled out and and repaired. Grease botle cage bolts, too. Giving every bolt a quick swipe in a tub of grease is worth the seconds it takes.
    Reduce. Reuse. Recycle. In that order.

  18. #18
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Snowy midwest
    Posts
    5,392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by madman451 View Post
    Recently there was a customer who ended up paying $70 in order to put on a bottle cage because the bolt was siezed in the frame, had to be drilled out and and repaired. Grease botle cage bolts, too. Giving every bolt a quick swipe in a tub of grease is worth the seconds it takes.
    $70 bottle cage. Who gave the customer that bill? Knock of 10% for favored customer discount? hee hee.
    Mike

  19. #19
    Senior Member BCRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    The 'Wack, BC, Canada
    My Bikes
    Norco (4), Miyata, Canondale, Specialized, K2 Proflex
    Posts
    5,359
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabor View Post
    Huh? Oiling allows you to CORRECTLY and ACCURATELY tighten the bolts with a torque wrench. That said, I cover bolts with anti-seize.
    A small point to add.....

    On the better torque tables supplied by fastener compaines you'll find two torque values. One for dry threads and another for lubricated threads. Lube including oil, grease or anti sieze compounds.

    If you lube a thread and then torque it to the dry spec the bolt will actually have somewhere around 20% more tension in it than it's supposed to have.
    Model airplanes are cool too!.....

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lansing, MI
    Posts
    325
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is something good for me to be reading now - I'm just getting into wrenching around with my bikes, taking apart bottom brackets and headsets to re-grease them and replace bearings as needed. The bike I inherited from my dad likely hadn't been re-greased since it was purchased some 28 years ago. He said they just oiled everything - but the bike has also sat hanging from the garage ceiling for the last 10 or so years. The grease in the bottom bracket was hard, almost the point of being able to be chipped off (it wasn't but another year or two it might have been). The bike was almost a new machine by the time I was done with just the bottom bracket. Next is the head set and then wheel bearings.

    As a novice bike mechanic in training - these kinds of things are good to know.

  21. #21
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Snowy midwest
    Posts
    5,392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
    A small point to add.....

    On the better torque tables supplied by fastener compaines you'll find two torque values. One for dry threads and another for lubricated threads. Lube including oil, grease or anti sieze compounds.

    If you lube a thread and then torque it to the dry spec the bolt will actually have somewhere around 20% more tension in it than it's supposed to have.
    Thanks for this, BCRider. I knew it to be true, but never knew the exact amount of difference between tightening dry or lubricated. All I know is that if you tighten with oil, you tend to overtighten. I have not found this to be the same with grease. Maybe it is because the grease remains when you go to loosen, but oil dissipates after tightening and with time, leaving the fastener super-tight.
    Mike

  22. #22
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Snowy midwest
    Posts
    5,392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tekknoschtev View Post
    This is something good for me to be reading now - I'm just getting into wrenching around with my bikes, taking apart bottom brackets and headsets to re-grease them and replace bearings as needed. The bike I inherited from my dad likely hadn't been re-greased since it was purchased some 28 years ago. He said they just oiled everything - but the bike has also sat hanging from the garage ceiling for the last 10 or so years. The grease in the bottom bracket was hard, almost the point of being able to be chipped off (it wasn't but another year or two it might have been). The bike was almost a new machine by the time I was done with just the bottom bracket. Next is the head set and then wheel bearings.

    As a novice bike mechanic in training - these kinds of things are good to know.
    Thumbs up and hats off to you, tekknoschtev.

    You added at least another 30 years to the life of the bike. Want to take it a step further? Write up something about your Dad and the bike, then you and the bike. Roll it up, put it into a plastic bag, and slip it into the post tube for a future owner/collector to find.

    I am working on an 80+ year old Columbian right now. It would be really cool to know something about the original owner. How did he get the bike? What did the bike mean to him? Who was it? How long was it in the family before it moved on to the next owner? Of course, it would have probably been wrapped in oilcloth or paraphin canvas instead of a plastic bag.
    Mike

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Surly Pacer with full Ultegra
    Posts
    1,016
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
    A small point to add.....

    On the better torque tables supplied by fastener compaines you'll find two torque values. One for dry threads and another for lubricated threads. Lube including oil, grease or anti sieze compounds.

    If you lube a thread and then torque it to the dry spec the bolt will actually have somewhere around 20% more tension in it than it's supposed to have.
    I don't claim otherwise, but if a manufacturer gives you a torque spec you should be able to assume that it is a lubricated value, unless stated otherwise. Dry torque values are much less accurate than oiled/anti-seized ones. Additionally, most manufactures have a large margin of error for their torque values and even if you did mistakenly oil a bolt and then torque it to a dry value, you should still be within the margin of error (in my experience).

  24. #24
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Tabor is correct. Most torque values assume some sort of lube on the threads. I'm still new to wrenching on bikes, but for cars and places where torque values matter (engine assembly) this is the case.

  25. #25
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    My Bikes
    03 Raleigh Professional (steel)
    Posts
    6,887
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Don't think that all forms of thread lube are identical when it comes to torque. "Wet" specs typically assume 30W motor oil. E.g. ARP sells a thread lube that makes a difference of up to 25% when translating torque to bolt stretch (that's what the torque spec is: a rough indication of bolt stretch). So they have two wet specs for their threaded fasteners: one for motor oil and one for their own lube.

    On bikes I generally use nickel-based anti-seize and aim for the middle of the manufacturer's torque spec.
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

    - Will Rogers

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •