1st: why the hell did shimano decide to make it so hard to adjust their hubs?!
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 521
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
1st: why the hell did shimano decide to make it so hard to adjust their hubs?!
why?!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY WHY WHY!!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!
and second: how should one clean out a hub when over hauling? i just wiped the races clean but there's still a lot of old grease in the center of the hub body from the last time i did this.
and second: how should one clean out a hub when over hauling? i just wiped the races clean but there's still a lot of old grease in the center of the hub body from the last time i did this.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gaseous Cloud around Uranus
Posts: 3,741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
7 Posts
Practice makes perfect,there not hard to adjust.A rag and some kind of degreaser,simple green,mineral spirits,dish soap,elbow grease....
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Shimano hubs aren't hard to adjust. I can think of hubs that are much harder to work on. Study the how-to guidance at Park Tool's website (parktool.com) if you're not sure what you're doing.
#4
Boomer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,214
Bikes: Diamondback Clarity II frame homebuilt.
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16098 Post(s)
Liked 1,457 Times
in
1,064 Posts
I just scoop the old grease out with a bag of cotton swabs. (from the race area where I am going to regrease)
__________________
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times
in
741 Posts
I scoop out the old grease from the hub races and wipe them and the cones and axles clean with a dry rag. I either wipe off or replace the bearing balls. There is really no need for a solvent or degreaser.
The hubs aren't that hard to adjust but it requires a bit of technique. You must use two wrenches, one to hold the cone so it won't shift and one to tighten the locknut. Clamping the wheel in an axle vise held in a bench vise makes adjusting the hubs much easier.
The hubs aren't that hard to adjust but it requires a bit of technique. You must use two wrenches, one to hold the cone so it won't shift and one to tighten the locknut. Clamping the wheel in an axle vise held in a bench vise makes adjusting the hubs much easier.
#6
Perineal Pressurized
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: In Ebritated
Posts: 6,555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
A rag ripped into thin strips will suffice for cleaning the grease from the hub body. Use a thin screwdriver to shove the rag through.
__________________
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 521
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
i did use the park instructions. i noticed that every time i would turn the nut with the cone held in place that the axel would turn too. eventually i just kept the axel from turning so much using my knee tightned the cone all the way with my fingers and tightened the nut and it rocked as it should.
#8
Boomer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,214
Bikes: Diamondback Clarity II frame homebuilt.
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16098 Post(s)
Liked 1,457 Times
in
1,064 Posts
The big advantage to this form of adjustment is that once the method is perfected, you will be able to set tollerances that are much better than the normal production ones.
With cartridge bearings for example, you get what you get........could be good or bad.........there just isn't a lot of adjustment inside the race.
With cartridge bearings for example, you get what you get........could be good or bad.........there just isn't a lot of adjustment inside the race.
__________________
#9
Your mom
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,544
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Is there a hub that's easier to adjust? All of the ones I've met with loose balls are pretty much the same. Pretty straightforward, I think. Wipe out, replace balls. I'd ignore the crap in between the races - not really going to affect anything. Or just push a rag through with your axle.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Anyone have a good method for keeping the axle from spinning during cone adjustment for those of us not lucky enough to have a vice? I've used vice grips and a rag in the past but I worry about damaging threads.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Montreal
Posts: 6,521
Bikes: Peugeot Hybrid, Minelli Hybrid
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
In the days before I use a vise to hold the other end of the axle, I had my wife hold the other end steady with vise-grips but the bribes were a lot more expensive than a cheap vise.
#12
Senior Member
I have an (a few, actually) axle vise at home, but out and about I've done this. Seems I've always got a 17mm combination wrench in the VW toolkit, and the angle on the box end of the combination wrench puts the open end of the wrench right on the spokes. If you need to use a cone wrench, you may end up putting a bend in it, but so what?
Of course, it's always someone else's bike that I'm fixing at the trailhead.........
However, those people have cars where a toolkit and spares aren't necessary.
#13
Elitist Troglodyte
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,925
Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Shimano isn't hard. I suspect you're having trouble because of the quick-release changes the adjustment.
Try a hub vise that let's you adjust the hub with the QR in place: https://jastein.com/Tools_for_Wheels.htm
or here:
Try a hub vise that let's you adjust the hub with the QR in place: https://jastein.com/Tools_for_Wheels.htm
or here:
__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?
- Will Rogers
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?
- Will Rogers
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,104
Bikes: Too many to count
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I've got to stick up for this guy somewhat. Shimano lower end hubs are harder to adjust than their moderate to higher end hubs. Has anyone tried to overhaul an old Deore hub. OMG! That is terrible.
And not everybody has access to bench-mounted vise and a hub specific tool made for that vise. The most you could expext someone to have is cone wrenches.
And not everybody has access to bench-mounted vise and a hub specific tool made for that vise. The most you could expext someone to have is cone wrenches.
#15
I Fold
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It shouldn't be too hard to overhaul if you remove one side's cone/lock nut and do not touch the other side. This way, after you clean and regrease everything, you can put it back in the exact same position. Tighten it up and then back off a bit and you're golden.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
And not everybody has access to bench-mounted vise and a hub specific tool made for that vise. The most you could expext someone to have is cone wrenches.
The axle vise, or something that serves its function, is the key. Without it, sure, adjusting a cup-&-cone hub is going to be difficult. I don't try driving nails with my bare hands, and I don't try adjusting hubs without the necessary tools, that's just how life is sometimes.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,138
Bikes: 2 many
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1266 Post(s)
Liked 323 Times
in
169 Posts
How is a Deore any harder than a Deore XT, XTR, Dura Ace or Ultegra? I don't get it. They're all cup-&-cone bearings adjusted using the same types of tools, and the same techniques.
Hozan makes a hand-held axle vise, for those who really want one. Alternately, a clever person can use their rear dropout and quick-release skewer (or axle nut) as an impromptu axle vise (put the wheel outside the frame, with the QR springs removed, in a fashion similar to the illustration that DMF provided).
The axle vise, or something that serves its function, is the key. Without it, sure, adjusting a cup-&-cone hub is going to be difficult. I don't try driving nails with my bare hands, and I don't try adjusting hubs without the necessary tools, that's just how life is sometimes.
Hozan makes a hand-held axle vise, for those who really want one. Alternately, a clever person can use their rear dropout and quick-release skewer (or axle nut) as an impromptu axle vise (put the wheel outside the frame, with the QR springs removed, in a fashion similar to the illustration that DMF provided).
The axle vise, or something that serves its function, is the key. Without it, sure, adjusting a cup-&-cone hub is going to be difficult. I don't try driving nails with my bare hands, and I don't try adjusting hubs without the necessary tools, that's just how life is sometimes.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
I got this from St. Sheldon's site, but don't care to go find you a link:
You need two wrenches to fit the locknuts, and two to fit the cones. One pair of appropriate "double" wrenches will work.
Get the adjustment close, then lightly lock both sides.
If it is too tight, put a wrench on each cone, and back them toward the locknuts.
If it is too loose, put a wrench on each locknut and run them toward the cones.
And remember that if the wheel uses a quick release skewer, the adjustment will tighten up some when it is installed and the skewer compresses the axle tube.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,104
Bikes: Too many to count
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
How is a Deore any harder than a Deore XT, XTR, Dura Ace or Ultegra? I don't get it. They're all cup-&-cone bearings adjusted using the same types of tools, and the same techniques.
Hozan makes a hand-held axle vise, for those who really want one. Alternately, a clever person can use their rear dropout and quick-release skewer (or axle nut) as an impromptu axle vise (put the wheel outside the frame, with the QR springs removed, in a fashion similar to the illustration that DMF provided).
The axle vise, or something that serves its function, is the key. Without it, sure, adjusting a cup-&-cone hub is going to be difficult. I don't try driving nails with my bare hands, and I don't try adjusting hubs without the necessary tools, that's just how life is sometimes.
Hozan makes a hand-held axle vise, for those who really want one. Alternately, a clever person can use their rear dropout and quick-release skewer (or axle nut) as an impromptu axle vise (put the wheel outside the frame, with the QR springs removed, in a fashion similar to the illustration that DMF provided).
The axle vise, or something that serves its function, is the key. Without it, sure, adjusting a cup-&-cone hub is going to be difficult. I don't try driving nails with my bare hands, and I don't try adjusting hubs without the necessary tools, that's just how life is sometimes.
Yeah, but the method you described with clamping the wheel outside the dropout works soooooo poorly. Not all dropouts are perfectly flat enough to do this. In fact, on the frames that I have the dropouts are called Wright dropouts, or something like that. It's a stronger design and I think Paragon makes them. They are becoming quite popular on both road and mtb. So, no go on the clamp to the outside of the frame design.
On to tools. The JA Stein tool and the other one, Park I think, requires you to have a bench-mounted vise. Most people don't even have these in their garages! I've never seen the Hozan, so I have no idea how well they work. Do you know if they work well without a vise? Because I just don't see people rushing out and buying this unless they already have a bench vise, in which case they would be a bike shop and not a garage guy with some bike tools.
#21
cab horn
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,353
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times
in
18 Posts
There's no reason anybody needs a vise or any gizmo to adjust the hubs.
1) Undo left side locknut from cone
2) Snug them against each other
3) adjust by hand till it's a little bit loose
4) Run two 17mms to tighten
5) tighten up locknut against cone and done
1) Undo left side locknut from cone
2) Snug them against each other
3) adjust by hand till it's a little bit loose
4) Run two 17mms to tighten
5) tighten up locknut against cone and done
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Yeah, but the method you described with clamping the wheel outside the dropout works soooooo poorly. Not all dropouts are perfectly flat enough to do this. In fact, on the frames that I have the dropouts are called Wright dropouts, or something like that. It's a stronger design and I think Paragon makes them. They are becoming quite popular on both road and mtb. So, no go on the clamp to the outside of the frame design.
On to tools. The JA Stein tool and the other one, Park I think, requires you to have a bench-mounted vise. Most people don't even have these in their garages!
I've never seen the Hozan, so I have no idea how well they work. Do you know if they work well without a vise?
Last edited by mechBgon; 06-14-08 at 10:29 AM.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,104
Bikes: Too many to count
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
All right, then go to your LBS and ask if they have a scrap frame or fork that you could have the dropout from
I think if you go to a discount tool outlet (Harbor Freight or wherever), you can get a small bench vise for $10-$20 that'll be suitable for this role. Bolt it to a piece of wood if you don't have a workbench. You don't need a $600 Wilton for this
I have a Hozan in my arsenal. In hand-held mode, it's not nearly as easy to use as a standard axle vise, but it's legit. If you want easy, get a little $10-$20 bench vise and a normal axle vise. I'd normally use the Hozan only to take along to events, where I wouldn't have a bench vise available.
I think if you go to a discount tool outlet (Harbor Freight or wherever), you can get a small bench vise for $10-$20 that'll be suitable for this role. Bolt it to a piece of wood if you don't have a workbench. You don't need a $600 Wilton for this
I have a Hozan in my arsenal. In hand-held mode, it's not nearly as easy to use as a standard axle vise, but it's legit. If you want easy, get a little $10-$20 bench vise and a normal axle vise. I'd normally use the Hozan only to take along to events, where I wouldn't have a bench vise available.
hmmm, good advice. I didn't know you could get bench vises for so cheap. I had to sympathise with the original poster because I've also had some difficulty getting hubs adjusted just right. Maybe, I'm just too picky with my bearings or maybe I'm just ham-fisted.
Anyway, if I get a cheap vise. Is the Hozan tool that you have made to work in the vise or outside of the vise. I'm just wondering what's the best axle vise tool in case I actually do end up getting a vise.
#24
Senior Member
Getting back to the issue.....
Clamping the one side to a frame or spare dropout is a bit of genius. Kudos to the folks that came up with that as an occasional quick remedy. That tool with the plate and nut for holding the wheel in the vise is another bit of genius. Quite a few years back I made my own version of that and the method works extremely well. Again, for anyone doing much of their own hub work getting one of those or making up something equivalent to use in their vise would be a great tool to have
However if anyone is doing much of their own wrenching I would strongly recomend a vise to use as a third hand. I put the importance of a good vise up there with using the right size wrench or allen key and having the right sized hammer . If a person is more than a once a year mechanic or if they are doing work at the level of R&R'ing hubs then they really SHOULD have a work space with a bench and a good vise.
That bench space may be a nice heavy fixed setup with a 50 lb vise or as simple as a B&D Workmate with a clamp on vise but it should be a reasonably good clamp on vise or a small to mid size bench vise bolted to a hunk of 2x8 that can then be clamped in the Workmate. With a bit of imagination the bike stand could be on one side of the 2x8 and the vise on the other and PRESTO! You'd have a great portable apartment or small house friendly bicycle work bench setup that could be broken down and put into a closet in the blink of an eye.
.
Last edited by BCRider; 06-14-08 at 12:01 PM.