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  1. #1
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Correct bb spindle length for Sugino XD600 cranks on a Surly LHT?

    I'm about to install Sugino XD 600 cranks on a Surly LHT. The Surly site lists the complete bike as having a 110mm bb spindle with these cranks, but it seems 113-118mm is recommended for these cranks nearly everywhere I look, so I'm not sure what's right. I'd like to avoid the trial and error method of bb installation if I can.......anyone know the correct spindle length for this setup?

    FWIW, I'll be using a Shimano UN 54 bottom bracket. Thanks for any info-

  2. #2
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    I did a search and found that others have used the 110mm spindle with the XD600/Surly LHT and all is well. Looks like I should have trusted the specs on the Surly site after all-

  3. #3
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
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    I'd go with a 113. I don't think you can go wrong with a bit more clearance.

    The 118 would be for a bike with oversized tubing.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  4. #4
    Senior Member smurf hunter's Avatar
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    Seems any would work, just a matter of dialing in a precise chain line. Those Shimano cartridge BB can be used with spacers too. I've used those to scoot the drive side a couple mm further outboard to reduce some cross chaining I was getting with a particular bike.
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  5. #5
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Just to update this, I installed the 110mm spindle bb (Shimano UN54) and the chainline is ideal. The seat tube on the bike is 28.6mm, I'm running a 26t granny ring on the Sugino XD600 cranks, and there's ample clearance between the 26t chainring and the chainstay. Dropout spacing is 135mm. I don't know why the 110mm spindle works so well with this setup since the general recommendation for these cranks is a bb with a spindle 113mm to 118mm, but 110mm is the one in this case-

  6. #6
    Senior Member smurf hunter's Avatar
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    Keep in mind, since the XD rings are comparably lower geared than a typical road bike, you may find the that you use a bigger range of your rear cassette. That was my experience when switching from a 48/38/28 Truvativ Touro to the 46/36/26 Sugino XD.

    Also, for a loaded touring rig where you'll spend a lot more time in the middle or triple ring, I prefer to add a spacer on drive side BB cup and bring my chain line outboard 2mm or so. That lets me use more of my cassette from the smaller chain rings without bending the chain too much.

    The generic rule of thumb is the middle ring should align with the middle cog on the cassette, but the LHT has longer chain stays, so wider chain angles are tolerable compared with a compact geometry road bike.
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  7. #7
    Commuting & Touring Guy Doconabike's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the posts on bottom bracket spindle length with Sugino cranks.

    I have had a lengthy adventure trying to get the chainline right on an old Trek 520 frame that I bought used. I wanted to use a Sugino XD2 crank that I already owned and a nine-speed shimano cassette. I couldn't find any reference for bottom-bracket spindle length, so I ended up trying three different bottom brackets before finally getting it right. Once it all worked out, the Trek 520 from the early 90s was a fine bike and it has now passed on to a friend.

    Now I am considering a build-up of a Surly Long Haul trucker and would like to avoid the "trial and error" method of bottom bracket spindle length selection again.

    Reading various posts on these great Bike Forums, it seems like a spindle length of 110 is appropriate and some sources seem to say 113.

    So, does anyone here have photos or good description of their chainline with a Sugino XD2 triple crank on a Surly Long Haul Trucker with a nine-speed cassette?


    In my ideal world, when the chain is on the middle chainring up front, I would like a straight chainline as the chain goes to the middle of the rear cassette. For folks with 110mm spindle lenght, is this the case? What about 113mm spindle length?

    With sincere appreciation for your thoughts on this....

  8. #8
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    Just to update this, I installed the 110mm spindle bb (Shimano UN54) and the chainline is ideal. The seat tube on the bike is 28.6mm, I'm running a 26t granny ring on the Sugino XD600 cranks, and there's ample clearance between the 26t chainring and the chainstay. Dropout spacing is 135mm. I don't know why the 110mm spindle works so well with this setup since the general recommendation for these cranks is a bb with a spindle 113mm to 118mm, but 110mm is the one in this case-
    So once again we've learned: "When in doubt, follow the manufacturer's recommendations."

  9. #9
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    So once again we've learned: "When in doubt, follow the manufacturer's recommendations."
    Yep. Although, of course, there were two different manufacturers involved (Surly, Sugino), and they seemed to say two (actually, three) different things. But yeah, Surly has built up a few of these bikes, and would know which is best.

    This is kind of an old thread, and I've got several hundred (maybe close to a thousand) miles on the bike now, it's all worked out very well.

  10. #10
    Decrepit Member Abacus's Avatar
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    I have basically an identical issue, and I'd like to bring this thread back to life rather than starting a new one from scratch, if that's OK.

    I intend to replace a 30/42/52 105 Hollowtech crankset on a 2003 Trek 502 with a 26/36/48 Sugino XD-600 crankset.

    The chainline on the existing 105 crankset is 45mm. I'm trying to work out what square taper BB I need to get the same chainline with the XD-600.

    Sugino recommend a 113mm spindle, but I have not been able to definitively find out what chainline that will produce.

    However, in another thread rednaxela said:

    Quote Originally Posted by rednaxela View Post
    I went through the same thing, and wrote Sugino. To their credit, they wrote back pretty quickly, and in english to boot.

    The XD300 and 600 are designed for either a 113 or a 118 bb.

    A 113mm bb will get you a chainline of 47.5

    A 118mm bb will get you a chainline of 50.
    So, I think rednaxela has go to the bottom of that issue, but I have some more questions:

    (a) Would the 2.5mm increase in chainline going from the existing 105 crankset to the XD-600 crankset cause any problems? (I am using a 9 speed cassette).

    (b) I were to use a 110mm spindle to establish a 46mm chainline would I have enough clearance between the inner chainring and the BB? I know that this worked with the OP's LHT, but would it be fair to draw a conclusion that it will always work?

    (c) I were to use a 107mm spindle to establish a 44.5mm chainline would I have enough clearance between the inner chainring and the BB?

    I realize that these questions might seem a bit basic, but I'm new to this stuff and would appreciate any help.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Abacus; 01-04-09 at 12:54 AM.

  11. #11
    Decrepit Member Abacus's Avatar
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    OK. Having got some information from somewhere else I'll answer my own question.

    As well as clearance between the inner gear and the BB, I have to consider whether a smaller spindle will allow enough distance between the inner chain ring and the chain stay [slaps head].

    I'll leave this up to the LBS, and just ask them to put on the narrowest one that will fit.

    Is a Shimano BB-UN54 decent enough quality for a bike that will do around 4,000km (2,500 miles) per year?

  12. #12
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    Wow, I remember this thread from way back when. well biked, glad you've enjoyed the ride since then.
    For the record, and for comparison, my Sugino XD2 triple got proper chainline on a 130mm-spaced bike using a 110mm bottom bracket.

    The XD2 (48/36/26) is on my Centurion Comp TA, which originally had 126mm spacing but I spread it to 130mm for the rebuild.

    As for Abacus' question, a UN-54 bottom bracket is fine. The difference with the UN-7X series and the UN-5X series was that the UN-7X had a fully hollow spindle, that was a little bit lighter. I think the seals are the same between the two though.
    To my understanding, Shimano discontinued the UN-7X series because of the shrinking market for square-taper bottom brackets.
    Last edited by TallRider; 01-04-09 at 10:39 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abacus View Post
    Is a Shimano BB-UN54 decent enough quality for a bike that will do around 4,000km (2,500 miles) per year?
    My experience with the UN-52/54 series of bottom brackets is that they are durable and a real bargain. Recommended.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abacus View Post
    (a) Would the 2.5mm increase in chainline going from the existing 105 crankset to the XD-600 crankset cause any problems? (I am using a 9 speed cassette).
    How close to ideal is your current chainline and how much clearance do you have between the chain and derailler cage at the extremes (that you use) of the cassette? 2.5mm would be significant in my mind unless you had really long chain stays or the ability to trim the FD significantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abacus View Post
    (b) I were to use a 110mm spindle to establish a 46mm chainline would I have enough clearance between the inner chainring and the BB? I know that this worked with the OP's LHT, but would it be fair to draw a conclusion that it will always work?

    (c) I were to use a 107mm spindle to establish a 44.5mm chainline would I have enough clearance between the inner chainring and the BB?

    I realize that these questions might seem a bit basic, but I'm new to this stuff and would appreciate any help.

    Thanks
    The clearance issue likely won't be between your granny and the chain stay or bottom bracket but between the two larger rings (mainly the middle one) and the chain stay. As you'll be going with smaller rings all around, you won't have a problem moving the chainline in a bit so the 107mm BB could end up working out the best.

    I have a brand new 107mm UN73 (hollow axle, all steel cups) that I picked up trying to find the right BB length for another bike. I'd be willing to part with it pretty cheap if you determined that was the length you need.

  15. #15
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timcupery View Post
    Wow, I remember this thread from way back when. well biked, glad you've enjoyed the ride since then.

    Tech-challenged as I am, I've finally learned to post pics. Here's a couple of my LHT:




  16. #16
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    And the full side view:


  17. #17
    me have long head tube TallRider's Avatar
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    beautiful! are these current pics, or shot right after you completed the build, but before much riding?
    (most of my bike pictures are right after the build, before the bike gets much use. the difference is especially noticeable in my mountain bike, which I don't clean much and can get away with it because it's a singlespeed.)

  18. #18
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timcupery View Post
    beautiful! are these current pics, or shot right after you completed the build, but before much riding?
    (most of my bike pictures are right after the build, before the bike gets much use. the difference is especially noticeable in my mountain bike, which I don't clean much and can get away with it because it's a singlespeed.)

    Thanks. The pics are from about a month ago I think.

    One thing I've changed on the bike in the last few days are the tires. We've been getting a lot of rain, and this is pretty much my everyday bike, so it's seeing some wet weather duty. I really like the look, and ride feel, of the Panaracer Pasela Tourguards (26 x 1.5) that are on the bike in the pics, but they are dicey in wet conditions. I've put Continental Sport Contacts on it (26 x 1.6), and they seem to do better. They're pretty much a true slick, with a lot more rubber on the road than the Panaracers.

    I've also re-arranged the headset spacers, and now have the stem at the top of the stack, no spacers above it. I figure if you're going to run with a stem that high, might as well go all out. It is really an incredibly comfortable bike. I have tentative plans in '09 for some real touring on it-

  19. #19
    Commuting & Touring Guy Doconabike's Avatar
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    Hi,
    I followed this thread for awhile and finally received my Surly Long Haul Trucker frame. For those who are interested, the 110mm spindle length on the bottom bracket seems to give an excellent chainline with the Sugino SD2 crank.


    Last edited by Doconabike; 01-25-09 at 06:51 PM. Reason: trying to insert photo

  20. #20
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doconabike View Post
    Hi,
    I followed this thread for awhile and finally received my Surly Long Haul Trucker frame. For those who are interested, the 110mm spindle length on the bottom bracket seems to give an excellent chainline with the Sugino SD2 crank.

    click below for the photo

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
    Yep, that was my experience as well with the bottom bracket.......Btw, nice bike! Are those Velocity Dyad/Aeroheat rims? I built mine up with Aeroheats (26"version of the 700c Dyads), they make for a great touring bike riim. Also, I really like the new truckaccino color. Very nice!



    Last edited by well biked; 01-24-09 at 05:41 PM.

  21. #21
    cs1
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    Senior Member cs1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post

    Do you get any pedal overlap on the ft fender? I used a set of those on my Waterford and almost crashed it when my foot got stuck on the ft fender. It was an embarassing situation.
    1999 Waterford RSE-11, 1995 Waterford 1200, 1989 Specialized Rockhopper Comp
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  22. #22
    Call me The Breeze I_bRAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by well biked View Post
    You forgot to remove the QC sticker from your hub before you built your wheel!

  23. #23
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_bRAD View Post
    You forgot to remove the QC sticker from your hub before you built your wheel!
    QBP built it originally; the tension was way too high, the dish was off and it was out of true. It was what I expected. I REbuilt it, to be accurate, as I do nearly all "pre-built" custom wheels. But the parts were cheaper that way than if I purchased them separately.

  24. #24
    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    Do you get any pedal overlap on the ft fender? I used a set of those on my Waterford and almost crashed it when my foot got stuck on the ft fender. It was an embarassing situation.

    Maybe a little toe overlap, but nothing to worry about. I think I get some toe overlap with all my road bikes if I'm turning sharply, going slow, and the pedal happens to be in the wrong place. No biggie, I don't even notice it.

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