Throwmeabone

I suspect the rust issue on steel frames is a little exaggerated, but I did buy a can of frame saver and I want to use it without the hassle of taking apart the whole bike or paying someone to do it. Here's my idea:

Take out the seat post. Do the top tube, seat tube, and seat stays from here.
Remove the bottle cage and do the down tube from the holes there.
Remove the rear wheel. There are little welding holes on the chain stays near the dropouts. Do the chain stays through these holes with the seat post removed to allow the propellant to escape.
Remove the bolts from the fender mounts on the middle of the fork blades. Do the forks from here. -Could this mess up the bearings in the headset?

Does that sound like it will work? Also, will the frame saver make it more difficult to put in or remove the seat post?

HillRider

It could get Framesaver in the headset bearings if it runs down the toptube and the headtube end is open. It could also get in the bottom bracket bearings if you have a cup-and-cone bb.

It also sounds like a hit-and-miss way to do the frame and I recommend complete disassembly to do it right. You can leave the headset cups in place and clean them of any overspray with kerosine or mineral spirits.

Mondoman

I've been thinking along the same lines as T; while in theory I agree with HR, in practice I'm not going to disassemble the steel frame bike I have in mind, with the possible exception of removing the cranks/BB for fun/learning. I figure that I should be able to cover most or all of the areas where water might accumulate. One question for those who have used frame saver spray: how long will it take after treatment to dry/stop smelling?

HillRider

It takes a couple of days to dry and not be noticeable. That assumes: 1) the temperature is reasonable, say 60 degrees or higher and 2) the frame tubes are open to the air so some circulates through them to carry away the solvent vapors.

Spray the frame while the tubes are all buttoned up and you could smell the solvent for weeks.

Keep in mind is that bare steel spots will rust even faster if surrounded by protected steel. That's one reason why you want to be sure the coverage is thorough.

Mondoman

Thanks, HR. I can't leave the bike outside O/N and I don't want to smell up the garage too much. Perhaps I'll try "flushing" the tubes with canned air at the end of the day.
What's the basis of the "bare spots rust faster"?

HillRider

Less area to corrode since the remainder of the metal is protected so the attack goes faster at these spots. There can be other considerations such as oxygen concentration differences that make the bare metal more vulnerable too. Suffice it to say, try to coat the tubes thoroughly.

BCRider

Sorry Hill but I don't see much reason for any bare spots to rust any faster. It's not like bacteria going after a weak spot in a body. Perhaps we just notice it more when we see a film of rust on a bare spot.

While I agree that you don't need to take apart the whole bike I would suggest that a partial isn't so bad. I'd remove the fork but leave the headset parts in place. I'd remove the BB and seat post but leave the derrailerus on. Opening the seatpost end, bottom bracket and headset opens up all the holes that you need to open to ensure a good access and it's just not that much work. Take the wheels off and do those other three things and it's... what?.... like 30 minutes tops? It's also worth it so you can fill up the tubes and then work them around so the liquid washes over any and all spots. And it lets you pour out the excess more easily.

Keep in mind that the air expansion holes between tubes that are welded together are very seldom or never the same size as the tubes so there's ridges that will hold in the saver if you can't tip it all around to let the excess pour out.

And is a couple of days leaving these points open for it to dry so you can enjoy it for another 10 or 15 years all that much of a task?

HillRider

Before you dismiss the concept, talk to a Corrosion Engineer.

BCRider

Hill, if you had insider knowledge about this you should have added something to support your claim.

I'm always willing to learn and certainly I subscribe to the old adage "the more I know the more I realize I have lots to learn". But you have to admit that such a claim without something to support it sounds just a little... well.. maybe a lot like snake oil.

Anyhow, consider me just a little more edumacated and open minded now.....

onespeed89

so if i have a sealed bottom bracket (Kilo TT is my bike) do i have to worry about getting in the bottom bracket? Thanks

kjunx

Hi, I posted on the Singlespeed forum, but i just purchased a steel frame bike (surly steamroller complete bike) and debating having my LBS take the bike back down framesave and then build it back up. I've gotten conflicting info from my LBS, QBP (makers of the frame), and Surly on if it's truly necessary to use framesaver. I live in Washington DC, i store my bikes inside, however if it's raining out i don't let that stop me from taking it out to run errands etc. Ultimately I am buying the bike to ride not to put in a museum. With that being said, i don't want to kick myself in the arse 5 years down the road.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

kj

toofastgt

I used to live on the beach and cold galvanizing paint is your best friend there if you ride steel frames!!
Take a aerosol nozzle that you can fit a tube into and put that on the can of cold galvanizing spray
paint. On the frame vent holes wrap the frame with some rags to avoid overspray and insert the spray
tube and spray the cold galvanizing in the frame and move the frame around to ensure that as much of
the frame tubing gets a coating take off the seat and do that and usually there is a hole for the top tube
and you can reach it and spray in there. The cold galvanizing paint contains zinc and will actually even
protect the areas where you didn't get any of the paint by galvanic protection!! You could get a zinc
anode and if you don't use a kickstand bolt it there and it will protect the frame especially if you ride in
the rain or leave it outside. Silver antisieze on all threaded connections especially steel hardware into
aluminum will prevent electrolytic corrosion and it also has a protection factor to the surrounding metal.

HillRider

That is correct as the zinc is "sacrificial" and will protect the surrounding metal even if not directly covering it. Galvanizing is different from a paint or other coating that just keeps moisture off of the metal.

Note to BC Rider:

I don't have "insider knowledge" and there is no secret formula or snake oil here. I also don't have the time or space on this forum to go into the intricacies of corrosion protection and prevention. You can, if you are interested, do some research into corrosion and the problems with "holidays" in protective coatings.

One more piece of evidence, remember Ziebart and the other automotive aftermarket "rust protection" coating shops? Done poorly (i.e., not uniformly coating all of the sheet metal), these coatings actually increased the rate of rust penetration for the cars that had it applied. What makes modern cars last so long is the use of galvanized panels and electrostatic coatings that give 100% coverage.

Mondoman

HR, I have to admit the "patches" idea doesn't seem plausible to me either, which is why I asked for the basis. If you have any other keywords besides "holiday", I'd appreciate it, as so far what I've found seems to refer mostly to liquid-carrying pipes.

Regarding poorly-done Ziebart and similar, my understanding was that the cause of increased rust penetration was due to (a) creating more openings for water to enter and accumulate and (b) cutting through pre-existing coatings, exposing the bare metal. I could of course be wrong.

HillRider

In the era when Ziebart, etc. was being pushed, there was no pre-existing coating on the interior side of the body panels of most cars.

Mondoman

Right, so the hole drilling could allow water to get inside areas that otherwise would have remained dry. That's what I was told, anyway.