Headset adjustment
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland County, NY
Posts: 320
Bikes: Giant TCRC2 2007, Dahon MU P8 2012, GT Avalance 2011
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Headset adjustment
I've just serviced my 1979 road bike. I'm having trouble getting the headset adjusted correctly. If I adjust it so it moves freely it's too tight when I tighten the lock nut if I leave it a little loose it rocks back and forth after tightening the lock nut. Time for a new headset or more tries on adjustment?
#2
Recreational Commuter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,024
Bikes: One brand-less build-up, and a Connondale Synapse Carbon Ultegra Disc. A nicer bike than I need, but it was a good deal, so... ;-)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
3 Posts
I've just serviced my 1979 road bike. I'm having trouble getting the headset adjusted correctly. If I adjust it so it moves freely it's too tight when I tighten the lock nut if I leave it a little loose it rocks back and forth after tightening the lock nut. Time for a new headset or more tries on adjustment?
You will have to set the adjustment, then apply force counterclockwise while you tighten the locknut. Otherwise the adjustment ring will turn clockwise slightly screwing up the adjustment. It takes some finesse. The other way to do it is to set the adjustment, then back it off a touch, and then tighten the locknut. You're in effect compensating for the fact that tightening the locknut will turn the adjustment a little bit.
It's also possible that your bearings have worn little "stops" in the cups, since a headset spends most of it's life within a few degrees of straight ahead. (This is sometimes called "indexed steering".) It makes adjusting the headset close to impossible. You can get away without replacing the headset if you have clipped bearings in there by going to "loose" (i.e. not in a clip) bearings. You will be putting more bearings in, and they'll be hitting the cups in different places, which gets around the wear points.
That may be a confusing description, but if you search on the forums for "loose bearings" you'll find better explanations. I need more coffee...
Kotts
#3
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,342
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6201 Post(s)
Liked 4,204 Times
in
2,358 Posts
Kotts is right about your adjustment technique. Rather then type a whole bunch of stuff about how to do it, Park Tools has this. Read it twice before you proceed
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#4
Too many hobbies!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hanover, PA
Posts: 304
Bikes: Maserati MT-2 (reviewed in Road and Track, 1974; Raleigh Competion GS Carlton; Dawes Super Gallexy; Hollands; Raleigh Professional
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Unfortunately, Park doesn't mention the need to secure the stem in place prior to doing a threaded HS adjustment. Tighten it to the same torque as required prior to bke usage. This method is listed in better HS manuals (Campagnolo, Edco and Stronglight.) Failing to initially tighten the stem may result in a slight deformation of the steerer tube after bearing adjustment with unintended additional bearing pressure. Best technique is to fully tighten the stem prior to adjustment.
But what about subsequent stem adjustment, you ask? It was a little too high or low or not perfectly straight. I've not seen any reference to the impact on a final HS adjustment where a stem is adjusted following proper HS install. Is it a 'best practice' to readjust the HS whenever changing the stem placement (higher or lower, left or right) or is this not required? Remember, I'm trying to outline a 'best practice' and not what a quick method may dictate.
Steve
But what about subsequent stem adjustment, you ask? It was a little too high or low or not perfectly straight. I've not seen any reference to the impact on a final HS adjustment where a stem is adjusted following proper HS install. Is it a 'best practice' to readjust the HS whenever changing the stem placement (higher or lower, left or right) or is this not required? Remember, I'm trying to outline a 'best practice' and not what a quick method may dictate.
Steve
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times
in
741 Posts
I see no reason a quill stem adjustent would have any effect on a threaded headset adjustment. The stem causes no longitudinal thrust on the steerer, just a radial load and the expander is (or better be) well below the upper headset race and well above the lower one. How can it make any difference?
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,869
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times
in
505 Posts
Just one other point to add to the good advice so far: if you get it adjusted right and it feels good (free of play, free-turning) in the straight ahead position, check it at other positions to make sure it feels the same at all positions. If it doesn't, take another look at the bearing faces - either the frame needs to be align-bored and faced, or the bearing faces really are not good enough.
I've had the quill stem problem, and you just have to re-adjust the headset after you get the stem in place and torqued. On smaller frames you really don't always have the freedom to place the stem vertically so the clamp is well away from the threads.
Road Fan
I've had the quill stem problem, and you just have to re-adjust the headset after you get the stem in place and torqued. On smaller frames you really don't always have the freedom to place the stem vertically so the clamp is well away from the threads.
Road Fan
#7
Senior Member
You need TWO headset wrenches in order to adjust and lock down a headset properly. Or at least one headset wrench and a BIG adjustable wrench or channel-locks or pipe-wrench. The thin headset wrench is critical to hold the adjustable cup steady as you tighten down the lock-nut.
Actually the procedure that really works 100% of the time is to unscrew the adjustable cup upwards into the locknut that you're tightening down. This pushes the two parts together and generates the thread-friction that locks the parts into place. If all you do is tighten the lock-nut, it's possible to press the locknut down into the keyed-washer only, but the adjustable cup would still be loose underneath.
Actually the procedure that really works 100% of the time is to unscrew the adjustable cup upwards into the locknut that you're tightening down. This pushes the two parts together and generates the thread-friction that locks the parts into place. If all you do is tighten the lock-nut, it's possible to press the locknut down into the keyed-washer only, but the adjustable cup would still be loose underneath.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,369
Bikes: 2003 Giant OCR2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This might be a dumb question, but did you also lube the headset? Mine was doing the same thing last week - couldn't get it to stop rocking without being very sticky. Turned out it was in dire need of a re-lube. Whoops.
Might also get rid of the bearing retainers if you have them, they seem good at nothing but collecting crud and creating "indexed" steering.
Might also get rid of the bearing retainers if you have them, they seem good at nothing but collecting crud and creating "indexed" steering.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere North of Detroit and moving fast!
Posts: 689
Bikes: 1976 Fuji America 1980 Fuji America 1984 Fuji America TS V 1982 Fuji Royale II 1993 Trek 970 1997 Trek 5000 2004 Trek Calypso 2007 Trek Portland 2008 Surly LTH
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
Unfortunately, Park doesn't mention the need to secure the stem in place prior to doing a threaded HS adjustment. Tighten it to the same torque as required prior to bke usage. This method is listed in better HS manuals (Campagnolo, Edco and Stronglight.) Failing to initially tighten the stem may result in a slight deformation of the steerer tube after bearing adjustment with unintended additional bearing pressure. Best technique is to fully tighten the stem prior to adjustment.
But what about subsequent stem adjustment, you ask? It was a little too high or low or not perfectly straight. I've not seen any reference to the impact on a final HS adjustment where a stem is adjusted following proper HS install. Is it a 'best practice' to readjust the HS whenever changing the stem placement (higher or lower, left or right) or is this not required? Remember, I'm trying to outline a 'best practice' and not what a quick method may dictate.
Steve
But what about subsequent stem adjustment, you ask? It was a little too high or low or not perfectly straight. I've not seen any reference to the impact on a final HS adjustment where a stem is adjusted following proper HS install. Is it a 'best practice' to readjust the HS whenever changing the stem placement (higher or lower, left or right) or is this not required? Remember, I'm trying to outline a 'best practice' and not what a quick method may dictate.
Steve
#10
Too many hobbies!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hanover, PA
Posts: 304
Bikes: Maserati MT-2 (reviewed in Road and Track, 1974; Raleigh Competion GS Carlton; Dawes Super Gallexy; Hollands; Raleigh Professional
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
HillRider said: "I see no reason a quill stem adjustent would have any effect on a threaded headset adjustment. The stem causes no longitudinal thrust on the steerer, just a radial load and the expander is (or better be) well below the upper headset race and well above the lower one. How can it make any difference?"
All I can offer is the specific advice in the Campy Super Record HS and latest Record HS instructions. They indicate: SR, "Only when you have fitted the handlebar stem to the frame, adjust the headset." And Record, "Adjustment: Fit the handlebar stem before adjusting bearings, so as to avoid any change in adjustment due to deformation of the steerer column."
Tightening the stem wedge causes a small deformation and consequential shortening of the steerer column, resulting in an unintended additional compression on the HS bearings. They probably have enough experience in these matters to include this step in the HS install and adjustment procedure.
All I can offer is the specific advice in the Campy Super Record HS and latest Record HS instructions. They indicate: SR, "Only when you have fitted the handlebar stem to the frame, adjust the headset." And Record, "Adjustment: Fit the handlebar stem before adjusting bearings, so as to avoid any change in adjustment due to deformation of the steerer column."
Tightening the stem wedge causes a small deformation and consequential shortening of the steerer column, resulting in an unintended additional compression on the HS bearings. They probably have enough experience in these matters to include this step in the HS install and adjustment procedure.
#11
Too many hobbies!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hanover, PA
Posts: 304
Bikes: Maserati MT-2 (reviewed in Road and Track, 1974; Raleigh Competion GS Carlton; Dawes Super Gallexy; Hollands; Raleigh Professional
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere North of Detroit and moving fast!
Posts: 689
Bikes: 1976 Fuji America 1980 Fuji America 1984 Fuji America TS V 1982 Fuji Royale II 1993 Trek 970 1997 Trek 5000 2004 Trek Calypso 2007 Trek Portland 2008 Surly LTH
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
HillRider said: "I see no reason a quill stem adjustent would have any effect on a threaded headset adjustment. The stem causes no longitudinal thrust on the steerer, just a radial load and the expander is (or better be) well below the upper headset race and well above the lower one. How can it make any difference?"
All I can offer is the specific advice in the Campy Super Record HS and latest Record HS instructions. They indicate: SR, "Only when you have fitted the handlebar stem to the frame, adjust the headset." And Record, "Adjustment: Fit the handlebar stem before adjusting bearings, so as to avoid any change in adjustment due to deformation of the steerer column."
Tightening the stem wedge causes a small deformation and consequential shortening of the steerer column, resulting in an unintended additional compression on the HS bearings. They probably have enough experience in these matters to include this step in the HS install and adjustment procedure.
All I can offer is the specific advice in the Campy Super Record HS and latest Record HS instructions. They indicate: SR, "Only when you have fitted the handlebar stem to the frame, adjust the headset." And Record, "Adjustment: Fit the handlebar stem before adjusting bearings, so as to avoid any change in adjustment due to deformation of the steerer column."
Tightening the stem wedge causes a small deformation and consequential shortening of the steerer column, resulting in an unintended additional compression on the HS bearings. They probably have enough experience in these matters to include this step in the HS install and adjustment procedure.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 33,656
Bikes: '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '20 Surly Midnight Special, All are 3x10. It is hilly around here!
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2026 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,095 Times
in
741 Posts
Neither have I but that's because it's the only way to be able to "rock" the bike with the front brake locked to determine when the play is just gone. Again, I'm convinced the steerer longitudinal "distortion" from tightening the stem expander has to be microscopic.