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Old 07-31-08, 06:36 AM   #1
Bob Gabele
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Campy Record Front Derailleur Failures...

I am stumped. I have a new Pinarello Paris Carbon Frame with full Campy Record (New, QS Ergo Double). The bike has less than 1,000 miles on it and has been built up by my LBS. Twice now, my front derailleur has snapped at the band. Each time, this has occured when shifting up from the small to the large chainring. In neither case was I hammering. In both cases I was coming out of my warm up and going to the big chainring. Both derailleur bands broke in the same spot (snapped in two) and it seems unlikely that the source of this problem is a faulty derailleur. Having said that, we are at a loss to understand what could be causing this. The full gruppo is a matched set.

Any ideas/thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated!

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Old 07-31-08, 06:43 AM   #2
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I think that you will get more information from Campagnolo's customer service. If there is a problem, they will probably have a fix.
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Old 07-31-08, 06:48 AM   #3
Bob Gabele
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So far, I have let my LBS hande this. They tell me that CAmpy has been little help. Maybe I should check into this myself...
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Old 07-31-08, 08:32 AM   #4
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Let me re-phrase my original question... Has anyone out there experienced Campy Record front Derailleur failure as described above in the latest version of Clamp on Ergo fronts?
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Old 07-31-08, 08:37 AM   #5
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Clearly, the bike is bad and you need to sell it to me at a deep discount price
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Old 07-31-08, 04:29 PM   #6
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Where is the band breaking? Did they both break at the same place?
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Old 08-01-08, 03:34 PM   #7
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Yes, they did. The amazing thing is that Campy USA is telling me they will not honor the warranty and claim that I must have crashed the bike...This absolutely is not the case. I am now sending them the SECOND derailleur. I have no idea what could cause this problem. My LBS, who built up the bike, thus far has been little help in the matter. I find the whole matter pretty incredible as there seems to be no effort to honor warranties at Campy.... A shocker. I'm 57 years old, don't race, and have six bikes all Campy equipped. This is the first one however, with the newest ERGO Record Gruppo.

Something seems wrong and I'm beginning to wonder if Campy knows about it and is trying to avoid a recall.
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Old 08-01-08, 04:33 PM   #8
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Any chance of a photo to illustrate where the break was? I have used Campy f der with 35 mm clamps with no problems. But, my newest one is three years old so maybe something has cropped up since then.
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Old 08-01-08, 06:28 PM   #9
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As I have returned both of them to Campy, I do not have the opportunity to get a picture. In both cases, the band broke when shifting up to the big chainring and the derailleur got sucked in between the seatube and the small chainring. It really tore up the cage in both cases. I live in Florida and the terrain was totally flat. I was not hammering but instead coming out of my warmup and doing, in each case, an easy shift to the big ring. I have six bikes (all Campy ranging from Super Record to Record to Ergo Record) and have been riding for over 20 years and have never seen anything like this occur.

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Old 08-01-08, 09:16 PM   #10
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I'm stumped. Hopefully Campy will do right by you.
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Old 08-02-08, 06:19 AM   #11
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It's already proving to be a long process. I'm hesitant to put a third derailleur on since the second one snapped after only a few hundred miles. As all the components are compatible, it is hard to imagine the problem being in the setup. My LBS is a shop used to turning out high end bikes so it would seem they would have known to torque the band corrrectly. I have had two conversations with CampyUSA reps and thus far they have been saying that the bike must have been crashed (they have yet to receive the second derailleur though, which looks just like the first). It sucks to have a great bike like this just sitting there because I cannot get good information. Thus far, neither my LBS nor Campy has had a SINGLE suggestion as to what is wrong.... Everyon just shrugs their shoulders. P.S. I have spent $2,500/yr in purchases at this LBS for the past five years...nice payback, huh?
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Old 08-02-08, 07:05 AM   #12
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Well, that really sucks. I would think that the LBS would be of more help given your support of them over the years. I am still intrigued. Can you go to this site http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/doc/doccatid_3.jsp and open the first document (Spare parts and tools catalog 2008 - Part A) and go to page 35 and tell us which part failed? Perhaps that would allow someone with some good Campy/engineering knowledge to chime in. Also, you did not say what the name of the LBS is, but you do have a Campy Pro shop in Ft Lauderdale. it is
Downtown Bicycles
400 N. Federal Hwy.
33301 Fort Lauderdale
Phone: 954-761-9920

I have had good experieinces with two Campy Pro shops and perhaps they could be of assistance.

Finally, you could also try sending an email to Leonrd Zinn, the tech guru at Velonews at this page http://www.velonews.com/contact

He is usually up for these kind of challenges.

Not sure if any of this will help, but it is worth a try.
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Old 08-02-08, 08:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Gabele View Post
the band broke when shifting up to the big chainring and the derailleur got sucked in between the seatube and the small chainring. It really tore up the cage in both cases.
Do you have a clamp on or braze ft der?

Sounds like a clamp on because the fr is turning on the seat tube. CF is kind of a slippery material. Lots of riders on the forum complain that their CF seatposts slip in the seat tube. It isn't that unlikely that a der would slip on the seat tube causing the kind of problem you are experiencing. You could sand the seat tube where the der mounts. Or, you could put some kind of rubber or 2 sided tape on the ft der clamp. That might help it to stay put.

I wouldn't suggest a steel ft der. If it slid on the seat tube it wouldn't break. But you can be sure something else would. Good luck.

Tim
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Old 08-02-08, 08:23 AM   #14
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You still haven't said where the bands broke.
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Old 08-02-08, 09:07 AM   #15
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I havent use fd campy with clamp since long time ago. Why you odnt get the campagnolo clamp and the regular non clamp FD? Just a sugestion.

THanks
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Old 08-02-08, 09:17 AM   #16
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Thanks for your interest folks.... The band in both cases (yes, they are clamp-ons) broke just forward of the hinge pin which is facing the chainring and the derailleur cage.. I'm trying to insert the picture, scanned from the Campy Tech Manual that RockyMtnMerlin suggested but am having trouble enlcosing picture... I'll figure it out though...

Thanks

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Old 08-02-08, 10:05 AM   #17
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Sounds like part number FE-RD322 in the spare parts manual. That would seem to be a strange place to break as there shouldn't be a lot of force applied at any time in that location. Sounds like there might be a problem with that part. That is one of the parts that is new on the 2008 F der. The previous models had part number FE-RD222 instead (although they appear the same in the parts manuals). Be interesting if anyone else has had this happen on the 08 fd.

Darn - Campy used to have an email address for the tech guys in Italy. I used it several times and got answers within a day or two. I can't find it in the new Campy site.
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Old 08-02-08, 10:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Gabele View Post
As I have returned both of them to Campy, I do not have the opportunity to get a picture. In both cases, the band broke when shifting up to the big chainring and the derailleur got sucked in between the seatube and the small chainring. It really tore up the cage in both cases. I live in Florida and the terrain was totally flat. I was not hammering but instead coming out of my warmup and doing, in each case, an easy shift to the big ring. I have six bikes (all Campy ranging from Super Record to Record to Ergo Record) and have been riding for over 20 years and have never seen anything like this occur.
I was originally thinking overtorquing may have been the cause but I'm now leaning the other way and I'm thinking your derailler clamp is undertorqued. Given the position of the cable clamp on the derailler, if the clamp was loose, the front of the derailler would get rotated into the chainrings if the derailler slipped. When you shift into the big ring, the shift cable gets put under a lot of tension which could cause this.

Given the (assumed) fragility of carbon fiber (both on the clamp of the derailler and your seat tube) it could be possible that your LBS is going too safe with the torque they are applying. This in turn is causing the derailler to slip. When it slips, it's getting pulled into the chainrings and it's the chainrings getting caught in the derailler that breaks the clamp. When you tell Campy that the clamp breaking is the root cause of the problem, they may well be right that the only way that clamp on it's own would break is in a crash. Perhaps if they were looking at the problem from the standpoint of the clamp slipping as the root cause, they might be more willing to work with you. It could be possible that Campy's low end torque spec is not enough to hold the clamp in place. If that's the case, they owe you two deraillers. If the LBS is undertorquing from their fear of cracking something, they need to get over it and fix your bike properly.
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Old 08-02-08, 11:21 AM   #19
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I have a picture now and had to crop it quite a bit. It does however, effectively show the area of the breaks in both derailleurs...

Thanks
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File Type: bmp CampyFrontD.bmp (87.9 KB, 53 views)
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Old 08-02-08, 11:28 AM   #20
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Here is the picture in a JPEG format if you cannot read the first...

Again, Thanks,
Bob Gabele
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Old 08-02-08, 11:32 AM   #21
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One would think Campy takes care of u like a King, like buying a Ferrari.

That one wacky prob. Even if u crashed it, and the bike happend to fall down precisely so a jagged rock hits the band dead center... but twice? It gotta be a defect man. Slippage would not break it but merely rotates it.

Look REAL close at the seat tube, under strong lighting, IT IS COMPLETELY ROUND?
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Old 08-02-08, 12:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post

Given the (assumed) fragility of carbon fiber (both on the clamp of the derailler and your seat tube) it could be possible that your LBS is going too safe with the torque they are applying. This in turn is causing the derailler to slip. .
Clamp is still alloy. Also the direction that come with the clamp on FD give the torque specs for the clamping bolt.

It also seems to me that if the FD slipped and turned into the chainring that the much more fragile carbon cage wold break rather than the clamp or that the hinge pin would go before the clap itself.

Might try posting over on the campyonly forum - http://www.campyonly.com/phpBB2/index.php to see if anyone over there has a clue. I did a quick search but nothing turned up.
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Old 08-02-08, 12:51 PM   #23
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JoeJack..


Your comments make a lot of sense. I too had thought of the possibiltiy that the clamp had been under-torqued. What stuns me about this exercise is the absolute lack of responsibility shown by either side, Campy or my LBS. All I have asked is that one of them tell me what the problem is as I have been hesitant to fit ANOTHER derailleur on until hearing something. I had repeatedly asked my LBS (at Campy's request) to talk to them to expain how the derailleur was mounted (how much torque applied etc.) and have only heard from my LBS that they had "talked to Campy, who would not honor the warranty". It has now been almost two months and I have, to date, heard not one valuable piece of information in spite of many patient phone calls...Today, my patience fell short and I retrived the bike from my LBS. This all makes me wonder how bad this economy really is when such obvious customer courtesies are being so blatantly ignored.

From Fort Lauderdale,

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Old 08-02-08, 01:03 PM   #24
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I would still suggest giving the local Campy Pro Shop a call if it is not the aforementioned LBS. They might be able to help you out.

Here is another possibility. East Coast Campy service center. I actually talked to the guy a while ago about another issue. He was happy to help me out.

THE HAWLEY COMPANY, INC.
1181 South Lake Drive
SC 29073-7744 Lexington
United States

tel. +1-803.359.3492 x 192
fax +1-803.359.1343
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Old 08-02-08, 01:09 PM   #25
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Bob, who is managing your RMA, just call hawleyusa.com from NC (ask for IAN), they should be able to help you out, the only thing they will ask is the invoice to prove that u got the FD legally, worse case scenario ask them if they have seen the problem before. Either way i havent seen ever that the pin brakes ever, It makes no sense at all. Undertorque should allow the FD to move after a few strokes of the shifter, but the pin shouldnt break at all.

I insist that your best bet is to get a campy clamp and a campy FD w/o a clamp. That configuration always work fine.

THanks.
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