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Old 08-01-08, 12:38 PM   #1
IndependentMind
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Help? Damaged carbon

So here's the thing...

I don't know if any of you heard about the huge bike theft bust in Toronto. My bike (or what was left of it, a Giant FCR1) was one of the ones recovered. All that was left was the frame, fork and crankset.

The frame is stupid light with a carbon rear triangle and carbon fork...the whole thing is now pretty scratched up (looks cosmetic, i could possibly have it wet painted) and i've noticed a "dimple" on the carbon triangle.

I was hoping that someone on here could take a look at these pics and give me their opinion on wether or not this frame is still usable...

Thank you in advance

Frame:

Damage:

Damage with measurement:
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Old 08-01-08, 01:03 PM   #2
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You should probably take it to a LBS (not the same one!) to go have it checked out.. carbon can have non-visible damage too.

Glad to know you got your bike back though! How long was it missing for?
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Old 08-01-08, 01:12 PM   #3
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That doesn't look kosher to me. Carbon can go bad without obvious damage, let alone with. From what I see, it has delamination of the polymer as well as tear in the fiber weave. Looks dangerous to me.

If there's any mitigation, it's that the damage is to the rear seatstay, which if it went at least wouldn't end up with your face eating pavement if it fails.
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Old 08-01-08, 01:19 PM   #4
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now that you something to show insurance; may you can get a new frame......
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Old 08-02-08, 10:41 AM   #5
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Thanks everyone for your input.

I've decided not to build around this frame anymore, the cost involved and the chance that the seatstay will break is just not worth it.

As far as insurance goes, you can forget it, it only covers (in my case) up to $500 in damages but unfortunately my premium is $500. It seems most insurance companies are doing this when it comes to bike theft.

The only thing salvageable is the crankset/BB, i went to my LBS and he tried to talk me into getting a new BB for my road bike (where the CS/BB would go) citing that it would not fit. Funny thing is, he didn't even check the sizes to make sure, he didn't inspect the road bike either. I'll have to invest in a tool set and do it myself (which is fine anyways, i want to learn how to do it.)

Thanks again everyone
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Old 08-02-08, 10:48 AM   #6
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A little hard to tell but the damage looks like mostly just clear coat chipping. You might want to take a real good luck and press on the damaged area with your finger - not too hard though. As long as the carbon is not fractured deep down, a little epoxy will fix it right up.
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Old 08-02-08, 09:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndependentMind View Post
I've decided not to build around this frame anymore, the cost involved and the chance that the seatstay will break is just not worth it.
I think this is a very wise decision. I always felt if my bike, or car for that matter, were stolen I didn't ever want to see it again. You have no idea what damage the thief did.

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....i went to my LBS and he tried to talk me into getting a new BB for my road bike (where the CS/BB would go) citing that it would not fit. Funny thing is, he didn't even check the sizes to make sure, he didn't inspect the road bike either. I'll have to invest in a tool set and do it myself (which is fine anyways, i want to learn how to do it.)

Thanks again everyone
You need one other new item, a new LBS.
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Old 08-02-08, 09:56 PM   #8
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Put it on eBay. Some ppl think they can repair ANYTHING. Just be up front and sell "as-is." Some$ better than $0.
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Old 08-02-08, 11:59 PM   #9
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As in the days of stealing horses I think lynching bike thieves would be appropriate. Good luck with your new build and keep your eyes on it at all times. I know how you feel...I had a Campy equipt Frejeus stolen in 1968 and I still get hot under the collar when I think about it.
See if you can get Giant customer service to look at it. If the only visible damage is the seat stays it looks pretty surface to me. Clear Krylon spray will water proof the site. Also, Calfee bikes makes repairs (all different brands) and they may be able to tell you more if you send them the bike. Good luck.

Last edited by Deanster04; 08-03-08 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 08-03-08, 12:37 AM   #10
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I'm new here,but I guess here is my 2 cents. The carbons look to be damaged and there are probably delaminations in it. A quick cheap way to test for a large scale delamination in carbon is to use a quarter and tap around; if the tone/pitch changes that means that there is a delaminations (note that this only works with large delaminations). Also carbon is not particalury good in compression and its strength is thus mainly dependent on the the resien. Also the carbon is load bearing, so I wouldn't take any chances with it.
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Old 08-03-08, 03:17 PM   #11
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Insurance may pay only $500 in damages, but with a $500 deductable means that if the frame is worth brand new $1200 they will pay $500. Therefore it is worth it to file a claim with the insurance company to at least collect the $500. Giant may have a discount program (usually at company cost or wholesale) for a new frame if your old one is damaged so look into that. Also an LBS can play with the insurance company by saying that the cost of a new frame, without the crash discount, is at suggested retail of $1200, then without the insurance company's knowledge get the frame with the wholesale or crash discount of lets say $800 thus you would only be out $300.
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Old 08-03-08, 03:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by freako View Post
Insurance may pay only $500 in damages, but with a $500 deductable means that if the frame is worth brand new $1200 they will pay $500. Therefore it is worth it to file a claim with the insurance company to at least collect the $500. Giant may have a discount program (usually at company cost or wholesale) for a new frame if your old one is damaged so look into that. Also an LBS can play with the insurance company by saying that the cost of a new frame, without the crash discount, is at suggested retail of $1200, then without the insurance company's knowledge get the frame with the wholesale or crash discount of lets say $800 thus you would only be out $300.
Fraud 4tw!
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Old 08-03-08, 04:21 PM   #13
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Fraud 4tw!
While this may be fraud it's done in the insurance industry ALL the time from medical to cars to homeowners etc and no one is ever cited for fraud...it's like it's expected! I've taken cars in for repair after an accident or vandalism over the years and the auto body place routinely over charge the insurance companies then past the savings onto the consumer by lowering or eliminating the deductible.

I had a bicycle wreck back in the 80's involving a car who was clearly at fault and the LBS arranged it just as the manner in which Freako described, I would say Freako had some sort of experience in this before.

I had a fire in a garage years ago and the contractor did the same thing to save me the cost of the deductable.

Medical claims routinely do this but this more for the benefit of the doctor not as much for us but they do sometimes save us money.

Most claims filed by autobody companies or from contractors are over estimated by $500 or $1000 depending on your deductible so you don't have to come up with that cash first before they can start work.

Insurance companies are always trying to pay for only substandard work to get away with as cheap as possible, no one ever accuses them of fraud for doing this! Yet we're suppose to behave ourselves when filing claims? No one behaves themselves in this regard because they know the insurance company is only going to pay the least amount of money as possible thus substandard work becomes the norm-or none at all if they can get away with it.

Now if you claim a homeowners loss of a TV and you had a 20" tv stolen and claim it was a 60" then that is a huge fraud. Yet I know a lot of people during the Northridge earthquake that did that very same type of thing, but only because the insurance companies were trying to rip them as well. BUT if you have receipt showing you had a 60" tv that you paid $4000 for and a new one will cost $4500 and the dealer will write you a receipt for $4500 but only sell it to you for $4000 then for some odd reason that's ok by the insurance company because they won't know it.

It's almost like a weird sort of creed, the insurance company will rip you off and you must try to rip them off back.

Last edited by froze; 08-03-08 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 08-03-08, 04:36 PM   #14
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While this may be fraud it's done in the insurance industry ALL the time from medical to cars to homeowners etc and no one is ever cited for fraud...it's like it's expected!
I can hear Judge Judy (or insert name of favorite TV judge here) now...

"If everyone jumped off the top of a building would you?"

The number of people breaking a law or committing a fraud does not justify the crime or fraud.

If the best logic for doing something is that everyone else does it, or "I got away with it before" then it is still poor advice from a legal perspective.
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Old 08-04-08, 05:03 AM   #15
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I think this is a very wise decision. I always felt if my bike, or car for that matter, were stolen I didn't ever want to see it again. You have no idea what damage the thief did.


You need one other new item, a new LBS.
Heh i have the frame sitting behind me as i type this and every time i look at it i just get p*ssed off i can't picture myself riding that thing ever again, i'm just keeping it for now until i can get the crankset and BB out. Considered building out a single speed, but naaah.


I may have found one, cyclepath. I was in there this week with the girlfriend bike shopping for her and wheelset shopping for me and the guys were really nice and seemed like they knew wtf they were talking about.

As far as doing the creative insurance claim, it's probably not a good idea considering the line of work that i'm in...still though, i do understand how bad they shaft their clients on a daily basis...

Last edited by IndependentMind; 08-04-08 at 05:05 AM. Reason: quote was messed up
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Old 08-04-08, 05:09 AM   #16
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I'm new here,but I guess here is my 2 cents. The carbons look to be damaged and there are probably delaminations in it. A quick cheap way to test for a large scale delamination in carbon is to use a quarter and tap around; if the tone/pitch changes that means that there is a delaminations (note that this only works with large delaminations). Also carbon is not particalury good in compression and its strength is thus mainly dependent on the the resien. Also the carbon is load bearing, so I wouldn't take any chances with it.
Thanks for the quick lesson by the way
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Old 08-04-08, 07:39 AM   #17
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I suggest you contact Calfee Design about having your frame inspected and repaired:

http://www.calfeedesign.com/howtosendrepair.htm
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