OK, Bought some bar tenders friend, and that stuff works. But, I'm looking for the best techinques. Like I was using a tooth brush and it worked really well at first, but now it's not going so great. I used both past and straight on wet metal? Is there a better way. Basically, how do you use ocilic acid (bar tenders friend) for the best results (does anyone soak overnight?) etc.. This is the worst language ever used on this site, and I'm sorry. Just give me some tips on using the bartenders friend. Thanks for the tip to begin with though (I got it from reading various forums on this site).