Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    PNB
    PNB is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    108
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Spoke Calculator(s) vs. reality ???

    Hi

    Im about to respoke a rear wheel with Campagnolo Veloce Hub and Mavic CXP 22 rim.

    The spokes Ive taken from the wheel (drive side) are 295mm long measured from beginn of thread to the point where the spoke begins to bend.

    I tried with the DT Swiss Spoke calculator and it gives me 288/290mm (DS, NDS).
    Same values (+/1mm with the calculator of Mavic)

    Where the original spokes wrong or whats the explanation?

    Same issue with another wheel with DT Swiss rims, hubs, spoke (R1.1 single, 240, aerolite) made from another shop in anoher country.
    I have a spoke I replaced (an aerolite) and this is 291mm.
    The DT Swiss calculator gives me 285mm for the same drive side.

    Whats up?

    Thanks a lot!

  2. #2
    mechanically sound frankenmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Dover, NH
    My Bikes
    rigid 29er moto, s-works stumpjumper fsr,black fixie,masi roadbike, ugly old hardrock commuter
    Posts
    1,259
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    From my experiences wheelbuilding in the shop: the best way to get the length right is if you have an actual spoke from the wheel. Sometimes on new builds, the spokecalc gives me wrong measurements (which usually isn't evident until the wheel is at least half laced). One possible cause of discrepancy in your case could be the lacing pattern.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    73
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    yeah just go by what you have on there. I used a spoke calc on my rear wheel and they ended up being to long.

  4. #4
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    other Vancouver
    Posts
    6,957
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    How many cross? I've used Spocalc for a few years, and every time I've had the wrong length spoke, it's because I've looked at the wrong number of crosses on the output. Other than that, it's been perfect.
    Jeff Wills

    All my bikes.

  5. #5
    just ride
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Jersey
    My Bikes
    specialized roubaix, dawes sst ( steel single speed)
    Posts
    341
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Did you actually measure the rim or just pick the rim off the menu offered by the DT Swiss calculator ?
    From my experience the DT swiss calculator menu does not reflect the actual diameter of Mavic rims.

    To measure actual diameter cut the elbows off of two spokes such that they are the same length. Thread nipples on such that the end of the spoke is flush with the bottom part of the slot in the nipple (fully engaged but so you can still tighten it more if you have to). Lace them into two rim holes 180 degrees from each other. Measure the gap and add twice the spoke length. Now enter this into the DT Swiss calculator. It's always worked for me.

  6. #6
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    an imposter living in the 35223
    Posts
    5,777
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Mavic does not give their rim diameter in the same measurement of ERD that the spoke calculators use. I have no idea why.

    I've never had an issue with Spocalc giving me a wrong length, but I always measure and doublecheck my hub's dimensions vs. their database.
    72 special CNC ______ 72 Frejus (ala Legnano) _73 Holdsworth Record
    80 Ranson__________ 80 unknown French____ 83 Trek 600 (620 styled)
    85 Gianni Motta_____ 90 Miele Gara ________ 02 Casati Dardo #1
    02 Casati Dardo #2 __ 03 Casati Dardo ______ 08 BF IRO (fixed/SS)
    09 Dogma FPX magn_ 10 Vassago Fisticuff (IGH)

    For Sale: _________ 78 Raleigh Professional __ 82 Peugeot PXN10
    85 Trek 560_______ 88 Guerciotti GLX

  7. #7
    PNB
    PNB is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    108
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi

    Lacing is 3x both sides.
    As for the ERD should be ok CXP 22 -> 599mm.
    Ive found the same value everywhere.
    The Mavic calculator where I entered the rim type gave me almost same values as the DT one, out of 1mm or so.

    The campy veloce hub I measured roughly and the given sizes look ok.

    Meanwhile I ordered the spokes a little longer that advised by the calculators and a little shorter than the curent ones (ordered on line, I need the wheel soon and little time to browse for shops which would have to order the spoke aso)
    Its not a huge investment (competition spokes) and I hope in the worst case to be able to recycle the spokes intended for the NDS on the DS.

    Another funny thing is, the currently used spokes are the same length both sides - I didnt want to believe it but I measured and compared them more times.
    The wheel was built years ago by a VERY experienced builder but some 600km from where I live now.
    Either he let a youngster do the job or he was in a hurry ...???

    Now lets see what happens.

    Thanks for all contributions, present and future.
    Last edited by PNB; 09-01-08 at 01:07 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,151
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Used Jobst Brandt's book to build my wheel. Back then there wasn't any fancy "calculator," it was pencil and paper. Worked first time, never had a single broken spoke, 15 years and counting.

  9. #9
    PNB
    PNB is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    108
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by PNB View Post
    Hi

    Im about to respoke a rear wheel with Campagnolo Veloce Hub and Mavic CXP 22 rim.

    The spokes Ive taken from the wheel (drive side) are 295mm long measured from beginn of thread to the point where the spoke begins to bend.

    I tried with the DT Swiss Spoke calculator and it gives me 288/290mm (DS, NDS).
    Same values (+/1mm with the calculator of Mavic)

    Where the original spokes wrong or whats the explanation?

    Same issue with another wheel with DT Swiss rims, hubs, spoke (R1.1 single, 240, aerolite) made from another shop in anoher country.
    I have a spoke I replaced (an aerolite) and this is 291mm.
    The DT Swiss calculator gives me 285mm for the same drive side.

    Whats up?

    Thanks a lot!
    Lately I found an error of mine regarding the DT Swiss wheels, I set 2cross instead of 3cross.
    Now with 3cross I get 295/296 (DS/NDS) - which s longer than what I have in the hand...

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Antwerp, Belgium
    My Bikes
    commuter, racer, ATB,
    Posts
    226
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have used the SAPIM spoke calculator for many different rims. I always ended up with perfect spoke lenghts.

    All distances should be measured and double checked with great care. Then nothing can go wrong. The most difficult part is to measure the rim's diameter, as it may not be a perfect circle in it's non laced condition. Measure the rim at different spots and calculate an average.

  11. #11
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    an imposter living in the 35223
    Posts
    5,777
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
    Mavic does not give their rim diameter in the same measurement of ERD that the spoke calculators use....
    Quote Originally Posted by PNB View Post
    Hi

    As for the ERD should be ok CXP 22 -> 599mm.
    Ive found the same value everywhere....
    The CXP 22 is not in my version of Spocalc, but from Spocalc "ERD is Mavic's Nipple Seat Dia + 3mm for nipples". Just make sure that value posted everywhere is an ERD, not Mavic's published NSD.
    72 special CNC ______ 72 Frejus (ala Legnano) _73 Holdsworth Record
    80 Ranson__________ 80 unknown French____ 83 Trek 600 (620 styled)
    85 Gianni Motta_____ 90 Miele Gara ________ 02 Casati Dardo #1
    02 Casati Dardo #2 __ 03 Casati Dardo ______ 08 BF IRO (fixed/SS)
    09 Dogma FPX magn_ 10 Vassago Fisticuff (IGH)

    For Sale: _________ 78 Raleigh Professional __ 82 Peugeot PXN10
    85 Trek 560_______ 88 Guerciotti GLX

  12. #12
    Senior Member smurf hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Auburn, WA
    My Bikes
    2006 LeMond Croix de Fer, 2005 Kona Dew Deluxe
    Posts
    624
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bottlecape30 View Post
    yeah just go by what you have on there. I used a spoke calc on my rear wheel and they ended up being to long.
    Just make certain your nipples are the same. Most calculators assume a 12mm nipple. I rebuilt some old MTB wheels from the early 1990s that were built with 16mm nipples. I ordered exactly the same length spokes as previous along with new 12mm nipples. The build was "ok", but many spokes had a thread or two showing when it was all done.
    1990 Merida Albontech DX
    2005 Kona Dew Deluxe
    2006 LeMond Croix de Fer

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Oklahoma
    My Bikes
    Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
    Posts
    9,201
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've never had a problem with the DT Swiss calculator. Always round down fractions to the shorter length so that you don't run out of threads.

    Al

  14. #14
    PNB
    PNB is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    108
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As afterthought I ordered the spoke NDS almost the same length as the original ones (just 1mm shorter = 294mm) and 292mm for the DS.
    I just have to find the time to pick them from the post office (easier said than done) probably on coming Friday.
    Then Ill let you know - should anyone out there be interested at all.
    Something I learnt: measure the rim by yourself!

    Kind regards from the Alps Republic!

  15. #15
    Senior Member nayr497's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Nilbog
    My Bikes
    How'd I get this many?
    Posts
    1,420
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    I've never had a problem with the DT Swiss calculator. Always round down fractions to the shorter length so that you don't run out of threads.

    Al
    I'm having trouble using the DT calculator. How do I measure pitch circle diameter? Flange distance?

    I'm trying spocalc but going crazy trying to figure it out. My hub is not listed. It is a track hub with some spacers, so having trouble figuring out some of the measurements with the cone, washer, nut.

    My main issue is that I'm reusing my hub, but have switched from Mavic Open Sports to Mavic Open Pros. Not sure if my old spokes are the same length that I'll need...

    **Figured everything out via spocalc. Ah, the joys of wheelbuilding
    Last edited by nayr497; 10-09-08 at 11:22 PM. Reason: found out

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •