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Old 02-22-04, 02:05 AM   #1
pyze-guy
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Was I wrong/need a new lbs

I picked a new beater and took it to my lbs for an overhaul and safty check. They phoned to tell me the problems and I okayed tne new cables and pads, but not a new tire and agreed to the price. When I picked it up the invoice included a new shifter. When they brought me the bike it not only had a new shifter, but a new derailer and a new tire. I told them I wasn't paying for any of the 'extra' work that was done and *****ed loud to the manager. His response was to phone the guy who worked on it as he was new and might not know better. I handed him the invoice and told him I was paying the amount on it only, with new parts or the old ones. I finally just paid the original quote and left. Of course now I need a new lbs, but of a moral concern, I must be getting older (and wiser I hope), was I out of line to be a mean sob after 5 min of futile discusions concerning the new parts?
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Old 02-22-04, 07:03 AM   #2
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Sometimes everybody is wrong.

The thing you left out of your post is, why the mechanic thought you needed a new tire, shifter and derailleur.

For me, the hardest part of doing shop mechanics was figureing out exactly what the customer's intention is. It sounds to me like the mechanic thought you wanted him to make your bike rideable when your intention was to hold the cost down. Somewhere along the line there was a communication failure because those can be two very different things.

This time I'm going to assign most of the communication failure to the bike shop because they telephoned you about needing parts and still didn't get it right. If your bike would have been marginally rideable with the old parts they should have given it to you that way or, if that wasn't going to meet their standards, declined to do the work. I've had to do both in certain circumstances. Had you approached the situation as: "I didn't authorise this, how can we handle this fairly?" I'd be inclined to completely agree with you.

Once you start cussing at them in the bike shop, however, you put yourself into the catagory of somebody they'd prefer not to see ever again. The upshot is that you accomplished your goal because you got a rideable bike at a reduced price and the shop has accomplished their goal because they don't have to deal with you anymore. Looks like a win-win to me.
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Old 02-22-04, 11:21 AM   #3
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I was given no indication from anybody at the store why the parts were replaced, so I don't kmow if they were wearing out or busted completly. The manager only heard some carefully choosen words after telling me I had to pay for the parts that were never authorized. Oh well live and learn. Whats a good lbs in T.O., as it would seem I need a new one now.
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Old 02-22-04, 11:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyze-guy
I finally just paid the original quote and left. Of course now I need a new lbs, but of a moral concern, I must be getting older (and wiser I hope), was I out of line to be a mean sob after 5 min of futile discusions concerning the new parts?
Did you still get the new parts at the original price? If you did then why not continue business with the shop? Clearly they did right by you in the end so they value your business. I am certain they would have liked the whole transaction to be much cleaner and simpler, but it didn't happen and they corrected it.

If your morals are bothering you that much then pay the shop a visit and apologize to the manager for your actions. If you take it in again be sure to tell them exactly what you expect as far as work being done and parts replaced.

All in all it sounds like a pretty good shop to me if they left the new parts on and let you out the door at the original price. Most of the shops around here would have put the old stuff back on and let you on our way knowing you would be back shortly.
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Old 02-22-04, 01:00 PM   #5
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Pyze-guy,

I feel I would've done something very similar to how you handled it (correctly or not), and I agree with you all the way. As well, I would feel extremely uncomfortable continue doing business with them, for personal reasons of feeling awkward, and because I would think they didn't want to see me, either.

Jessica
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Old 02-22-04, 10:37 PM   #6
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I too would have reacted in the same way. Lucky for me my LBS guys are awsome (but if youre looking for one in T.O. then mine will be too far as i live in mississauga). Just out of curiosity which LBS might this have been?
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Old 02-23-04, 01:43 AM   #7
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I too would have reacted in the same way. Lucky for me my LBS guys are awsome (but if youre looking for one in T.O. then mine will be too far as i live in mississauga). Just out of curiosity which LBS might this have been?
I wont publish the name for all to see as the service in the past was good. Mississauga is far, but what is the lbs name in case I ambroken down near harwood hills.
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Old 02-23-04, 07:44 AM   #8
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A bike shop that takes on a basket case type repair had better be very good at triage, or when they make the call regarding the extras, have all the extras covered. The shop screwed up. But you did also when you lost your temper. Bikes are not matters of life and death. Although I do have some customers who think so. Losing your temper only makes a tough situation tougher. I would have given you the repair at the original price and apologized. And I have on occaision had do that. Mistakes happen. But over and above everything else, keeping my customers happy is my main focus.

If this shop is any good, they will not let any future dealings with you affect their service. But, as I have found out, one negative experience often chases a customer away for good. I would suggest you give them another chance. If you do not feel good about the initial contact, then bail.
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Old 02-23-04, 10:57 AM   #9
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The name of the lbs in Mississauga that I go to is Re-My Sports. (www.remysport.com)
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Old 02-23-04, 11:10 AM   #10
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Spewing obsenities over an honest mistake was wrong, especially when you say this LBS has done right by you in the past. Even if you never plan to go back to the LBS, you should go back and apologize to both the mechanic and the owner.
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Old 02-23-04, 11:49 AM   #11
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Spewing obsenities over an honest mistake was wrong, especially when you say this LBS has done right by you in the past. Even if you never plan to go back to the LBS, you should go back and apologize to both the mechanic and the owner.
I don't think I mentioned anywhere in the original message that I was swearing at anyone. I wasn't clear enough on the fact that it was after being told that I had to pay for the unrequested and unknown about repairs that I began to use louder words towards the manager. I mentioned to the manager that although I appreciated the fact that they were thorough in their overhaul, these repairs were done without my concent. After being told that they were done and I had to pay, then my words took on a harsher tone. As there were parents and kids in the store, swearing would have made the situation worse for everyone in the store. I may have wanted to call them socksuckers, but that woud have solved nothing.
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Old 02-23-04, 11:56 AM   #12
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I assumed the "*****ed" meant you used a phrase that would not be permitted on these pages. Sorry for the misunderstanding. You may still owe an apology, depending on how "harsh" your tone really got. Since you didn't spew obsenities, and since none of us listened in on the phone conversations, I don't think any of us have the facts to say who was right or wrong.

If you think you have unresolved issues with the LBS that a friendly conversation could resolve, go back at a time you think he won't be busy. Otherwise, I'd just find another LBS.
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Old 02-23-04, 12:29 PM   #13
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I so agree with Daily Commute.
Pyze you both misbehaved AND got the parts for free.
This is ingratitude indeed.
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Old 02-23-04, 05:57 PM   #14
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Pyze, good LBS's in T.O. That Ive had good experience with, helpful and fair prices.
Beaches, Cycle Soloutions Kingston Rd.
Downtown, Earls, Cycle Soloutions Parliament
Uptown, SportSwap
North End, Silent Sports,
East End, D'ornellas
West End, ??
But if you ended up with parts unpaidfor, you do owe them further business...
In this day and age, you cannot do work without approval. And Under the Mechanics Lein act, you were correct, you did not have to pay for unauthorized repairs. However a fair soloution would have been that they offered you the parts cost, not repair cost for them as that was their error.

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Old 02-23-04, 06:14 PM   #15
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Friendly on who's part?Oh i see you added some stuff to my bike i didnt want and you didnt ask.To bad,your paying the bill.I wouldnt have if it meant putting the old stuff back on and i wouldnt have payed for the labor either. Do what i ask and if something else shows up,call me and i'll let you know what to do.Thats how it works.
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Old 02-23-04, 06:45 PM   #16
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Most LBS suck. I have never had a great experiance at one. I have one I do business with but I don't like them a heck of a lot either. Learn to do the work yourself, it will be cheaper and you will know it is done right.

Thats my opinion.
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Old 02-23-04, 07:11 PM   #17
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Once, many years ago I had a customer come in for a repair. The bike had a flat tire, in addition to the problems on the repair order. So I fixed it. The customer flipped, he didn't want the tube repaired, he planned to do it himself(didn't mention this to us before hand) he WAS NOT going to pay for the tube. So I deflated the tire pulled the tube poked an awl thru it, crossed the part and labor off the ticket and rang the guy up.
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Old 02-23-04, 08:46 PM   #18
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I like that.
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Old 02-24-04, 01:43 AM   #19
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Once, many years ago I had a customer come in for a repair. The bike had a flat tire, in addition to the problems on the repair order. So I fixed it. The customer flipped, he didn't want the tube repaired, he planned to do it himself(didn't mention this to us before hand) he WAS NOT going to pay for the tube. So I deflated the tire pulled the tube poked an awl thru it, crossed the part and labor off the ticket and rang the guy up.
It's not that I was going to fix the derailer, shifter, tire and tube myself, it's that I did say to them. I have my own tires and tubes at home, thanks for the info, I will do it myself. As for the shifter and derailer, they may have needed repairing, they worked okay when the bike was taken in, so to go ahead and replace parts worth about $120 without my knowledge or consent, or have any reason for doing so besides "well, I guess if they were replaced they were broken" to me seems to be taking a few liberties with me and my pocketbook.

Since it seems the broken parts were also pitched out, as I picked the bike up 5min before closing, they was no way to know for sure if there was a problem. In the past when I have needed extra work they have taken me into the shop and shown me the problem so I can see for myself. I wouldn't let a mechanicic do extra work on my car, or a contractor in my kitchen do modifications to my line without first consulting me about the problem, what needed to be fixed and what the cost was going to be. I felt, and still do feel. that ultimatly it is my decision what the end result that I am paying for should be.
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Old 02-24-04, 01:55 AM   #20
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Pyze-guy: If that lbs let you walk out of that shop with all of the new parts and charged you only for the origional quote. They did you an exceptional favor. If you were profane in you protest, then you owe them an apology. You are dealing with a jewel of a LBS. Don't change!!!!
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Old 02-24-04, 02:07 AM   #21
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Pyze-guy: If that lbs let you walk out of that shop with all of the new parts and charged you only for the origional quote. They did you an exceptional favor. If you were profane in you protest, then you owe them an apology. You are dealing with a jewel of a LBS. Don't change!!!!
Originally the 'need a new lbs' was supposed to be a question, not a statement, so the implication there is my fault for not being clear. However what if I had only $100 to my next payday, no credit card and I could not afford the unrequested repairs, am I to leave my transportation to work behind. Or say I was going to tune the derailer and replace the shifter on my own, they were in working order but wearing out, should I be paying for a mistake made on their end no matter how good the intentions were? I felt no need to provide a detailed list of what not to fix, only what I originally asked for and agreed to, a new headset, brake pads and brake cable, no more and no less.
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Old 02-24-04, 07:45 AM   #22
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Honest disagreements happen in business all the time. Whether you got profane or not, there is no excuse for even raising your voice. The LBS owner did the honorable thing by accepting payment only for the amount originally agreed.

Look at it from the LBS' perspective. He had a customer who needed a beater bike back quickly in order to get to work. The bike had obvious problems that could make it unreliable. The LBS worker probably thought he was doing you a favor by getting everything done at once so you could get your transportation back.

If your bike really needed the extra repairs to remain reliable, and if you didn't plan on doing them yourself, you should offer to pay the additional money on installment. If the whole amount is too much, split the difference or pay for the parts only.

And apologize for raising your voice and speaking "harshly."

I also agree with feltup: If money is tight, learn to do the simple repairs yourself. You can usually buy a tool for the price of labor for a project. A good LBS will tell you how to use the tool when you buy it. In the long run, you'll save money. And you can save the LBS for the tough stuff.

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Old 02-24-04, 08:49 AM   #23
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I can't tell you how many bikes come in with the request, "Just do this, nothing else". Invariably, I find something else that makes the money the customer wants to spend on "this only" to be wasted if "that" is not taken care of. So I call them. If they approve the amended estimate, I perform the work. If they don't, I will often make them aware the repairs requested are wasting their money, but will fix it anyway. And sometimes I won't fix their bike unless "that" is also taken care of. I learned this lesson as the result of being involved in a lawsuit where my shop had been the last shop to work on the "unsafe" bike. The fact that the bonehead suing had been riding the wrong way and was nailed running a red light didn't matter. He contended I had not informed him of his faulty brakes. I had, but it didn't matter. My insurance company settled and then promptly dropped us.

I am not inferring this was the reason the LBS did the extra work. Just a possible motive. It is much safer to err on the side of caution and fix what you see then let the bike out of your store in an unsafe condition.

From your follow-ups, I gather this was definitely a case of poor communication by the LBS. They took care of it. I think you should give them another chance.
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Old 02-24-04, 08:59 AM   #24
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Dont most shops give you your old parts back also. I really like when a lbs screws up like this and somehow,some of you find the owner of the bike at fault. Oh,thanks for doing more then i wanted,i'll just give you my food money and next time maybe you can find some more stuff wrong but dont bother calling me first. Boy you really screwed up by supporting your lbs as evertbody cries about doing and letting them work on your bike.
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Old 02-24-04, 09:05 AM   #25
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Dont most shops give you your old parts back also.
I can't speak for other shops, but I always bag the old parts and attach them to the repaired bike.
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