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Old 09-03-08, 06:56 PM   #1
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Rhyno Lite or Salsa Delgado or . . .?

I知 trying to build up a rear wheel for loaded touring. My LBS is getting the parts and I知 going to lace the wheel. I知 a clyde so I need strong wheels. I want strength. I don稚 care about weight.

My other bike has a Sun Rhyno Lite rim and it has worked well for me so I figure I値l get that. Problem is my LBS says that his distributor is out of stock and it will take until December to get them. My LBS recommends a Salsa Delgado Rim. He says they are as good as the Rhyno.

I know nothing about this rim and doing a search turned up little info.
Is the Delgado a good, strong rim as good as Rhyno?
Is there another rim that is stronger than either of those two?
What is your opinion?
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Old 09-03-08, 07:45 PM   #2
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I think the Sun Rhyno rim is probably a tougher rim but only by the smallest bit, but it's also a tad heavier. You would probably be happy with either. I like Sun rims because they give you a very strong rim for less money then Mavic or maybe even Salsa, but anything Salsa makes will be good stuff. Confused now?
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Old 09-03-08, 08:04 PM   #3
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The salsa rim is a good alternative. Mavic and Velocity also make some good heavy duty rims. The Sun CR-18 is pretty good also.
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Old 09-04-08, 03:42 PM   #4
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Ok, Thanks.
I guess I'll tell the LBS to order the Delgado.
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Old 09-04-08, 04:06 PM   #5
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The thing that I don't like about the Rhyni Lites is they aren't the easiest rim to install and remove a tire.

When I rebuilt my 700c tandem wheels I used Velocity Dyad rims. They were the truest wheels that I've ever built. They required virtually no trueing once I brought them up to tension. They have a deep center section that makes them easy to install tires too. They're a no tire lever needed rim. The same rim extrusion in a 26" size is called Aero Heat.
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Old 09-05-08, 08:02 AM   #6
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I知 trying to build up a rear wheel for loaded touring. My LBS is getting the parts and I知 going to lace the wheel. I知 a clyde so I need strong wheels. I want strength. I don稚 care about weight.

My other bike has a Sun Rhyno Lite rim and it has worked well for me so I figure I値l get that. Problem is my LBS says that his distributor is out of stock and it will take until December to get them. My LBS recommends a Salsa Delgado Rim. He says they are as good as the Rhyno.

I know nothing about this rim and doing a search turned up little info.
Is the Delgado a good, strong rim as good as Rhyno?
Is there another rim that is stronger than either of those two?
What is your opinion?
The Delgados are about as good as any other rim. They don't have machined brake surfaces so they can have an annoying bump at the joint but that's typical of many nonmachined rims. Mavic A719, Velocity Dyads, IRD Cadence VSR, etc are all good rims. (The VSR may be better for touring because of the offset drilling resulting in less dishing) But don't fall into the trap of thinking that if you have strong rims you have a strong wheel. Rims do little of the actual heavy lifting on a bicycle wheel. They are only there to as a place to attach the spokes that really do the work in a wheel (Okay, I'm overstating that a bit ). Build a strong wheel with strong spokes.

That doesn't mean thick straight spokes either. For various reasons (do a search), butted spokes are better and DT Alpine III are better still. The Alpines have a thicker elbow that stands up to the punishment that loads on bikes put the spokes through.
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Old 09-05-08, 08:51 AM   #7
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I'm surprised that no one has brought up the question of the number of spokes yet. The rim is important sure, but not as important as the number of spokes. 36 would be minimum if you're looking at a durable wheel and 40 spokes as often used in tandems would be even better. 40 spoke hubs and rims are not all that common but if you're looking for the most durable WHEEL as opposed to just the rim that would be a good way to go.

As for the rims themselves you're lucky in that a lot more options are out there for wider 700c rims these days thanks to the 29er movement.
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Old 09-05-08, 10:48 AM   #8
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If you are worried about your weight vs the Wheel, it is probably spoke count you need to worry about. Possibly hub issues like the axle. I don't think the rim will be an issue. Consier a Phil Wood hub.
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Old 09-05-08, 02:47 PM   #9
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They don't have machined brake surfaces so they can have an annoying bump at the joint but that's typical of many nonmachined rims.
.
Where did you come up with this nonsense? Obviously you never owned a joined rim!!

Only the cheapest of the cheapest joined rim would have a joint that would "bump" you. I've never owned a machined rim in my life untill the Mercian, but previous to that ALL my rims were joined and NONE ever "bumped" actually you mean grabbed the brakes pads as they went by or made the brakes squeal. This is one of those old bike tales.

Prior to more accurate machining of jointed rims and prior to machined rims, all a person had to do was take a piece of emery paper and smooth the joint down so it wouldn't grab; this was a ritual all cyclists went through with new rims back in the day (prior to about 75). But once more accurate machining techniques came along...and still prior to machined rims...we no longer had to sand our rims down.

A machined rim by the way is not any better then a joined rim; a machined rim the hoop is welded together then it's put through a machine that grinds the entire wheel until the weld and the hoop look like one continuous loop, whereas the joined rim is joined by a series of pins or filler pieces that go into hollow areas that were drilled into the rim.

For more detailed info see http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/machined-rims.html
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Old 09-05-08, 03:02 PM   #10
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Where did you come up with this nonsense? Obviously you never owned a joined rim!!

Only the cheapest of the cheapest joined rim would have a joint that would "bump" you. I've never owned a machined rim in my life untill the Mercian, but previous to that ALL my rims were joined and NONE ever "bumped" actually you mean grabbed the brakes pads as they went by or made the brakes squeal. This is one of those old bike tales.

Prior to more accurate machining of jointed rims and prior to machined rims, all a person had to do was take a piece of emery paper and smooth the joint down so it wouldn't grab; this was a ritual all cyclists went through with new rims back in the day (prior to about 75). But once more accurate machining techniques came along...and still prior to machined rims...we no longer had to sand our rims down.

A machined rim by the way is not any better then a joined rim; a machined rim the hoop is welded together then it's put through a machine that grinds the entire wheel until the weld and the hoop look like one continuous loop, whereas the joined rim is joined by a series of pins or filler pieces that go into hollow areas that were drilled into the rim.

For more detailed info see http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/machined-rims.html
Every single jointed rim I have ever used...and I assure you that I've used plenty of them...have a noticeable bump in the brakes at the joint.

You need to make up your mind (and maybe not be so damned crabby). Which is it? You've either never owned a rim that bumped or you've sanded the 'bump' down. You are contradicting yourself.

Machined rims are better then pin jointed rims only in that they have a smoother braking surface without an annoying bump at the joint. Exactly what I said the first time. Even if you take the bump out with sand paper, it's still there prior to removal.
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Old 09-05-08, 03:14 PM   #11
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Every single jointed rim I have ever used...and I assure you that I've used plenty of them...have a noticeable bump in the brakes at the joint.

You need to make up your mind (and maybe not be so damned crabby). Which is it? You've either never owned a rim that bumped or you've sanded the 'bump' down. You are contradicting yourself.

Machined rims are better then pin jointed rims only in that they have a smoother braking surface without an annoying bump at the joint. Exactly what I said the first time. Even if you take the bump out with sand paper, it's still there prior to removal.
Oh boy here we go.

You either can't read. can't comprehend, or not interested in reading.

Did you notice in my post I said that only rims that were either the cheapest of the cheapest, which by the way are no longer made and haven't been for years; or prior to about 1975 we had to sand, after that the rims were built so good sanding was no longer needed. THE "BUMP" is no longer there, though the seam, howbeit very fine is still there.

I noticed you also didn't read the web site I gave you ,which comes from an expert far more knowledgable then either you or I on this subject which DEBUNKS all you said!
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Old 09-05-08, 04:02 PM   #12
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Oh boy here we go.

You either can't read. can't comprehend, or not interested in reading.

Did you notice in my post I said that only rims that were either the cheapest of the cheapest, which by the way are no longer made and haven't been for years; or prior to about 1975 we had to sand, after that the rims were built so good sanding was no longer needed. THE "BUMP" is no longer there, though the seam, howbeit very fine is still there.

I noticed you also didn't read the web site I gave you ,which comes from an expert far more knowledgable then either you or I on this subject which DEBUNKS all you said!
I read the post and don't find that it debunks anything that I said. The Salsa Delgados I on my bike currently have a joint that is not smooth. Every pinned and jointed rim I have ever used has had a nonsmooth joint. Every rim that I have used that is welded and machined have not had the same problem. I fail to see how anything that Jobst Brandt wrote 5 years ago debunks any thing that is happening with this set of wheels.

Perhaps you missed this statement
Quote:
rim joints have been made with no perceptible discontinuity almost as long as aluminum rims have been made. Unfortunately, some people in marketing believe that rims will separate if not riveted (or welded) and introduced riveting that usually distorts rim joints.
and perhaps that is the problem with the Salsas and every other jointed rim that I've owned. They are not expensive rims ($40 each).

Not every pinned rim made is of top quality. I'm certain that there may be some out there that don't have misaligned rim joints but I'm also certain that nearly everyone who has ridden a bike has had at least one or two pinned rims that have a brake bump in them.

Welded and machined rims simply do not have the problem. There is nothing wrong with building a wheel with either kind of rim. Personally, I prefer a nice smooth braking surface of a welded and machined rim without having to futz with smoothing the joint myself. That said, the Delgados I have will be in service for a long time before I have to replace them and
they will have the annoying bump until they are gone.

Now, if you want to come over and feel the joint for yourself, feel free. I know enough about wheels and rims and brakes to know what the problem is and that it exists...and I'm not the only one who has ever experienced it.
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Old 09-05-08, 08:32 PM   #13
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I read the post and don't find that it debunks anything that I said. The Salsa Delgados I on my bike currently have a joint that is not smooth. Every pinned and jointed rim I have ever used has had a nonsmooth joint. Every rim that I have used that is welded and machined have not had the same problem. I fail to see how anything that Jobst Brandt wrote 5 years ago debunks any thing that is happening with this set of wheels.

Perhaps you missed this statement and perhaps that is the problem with the Salsas and every other jointed rim that I've owned. They are not expensive rims ($40 each).

Not every pinned rim made is of top quality. I'm certain that there may be some out there that don't have misaligned rim joints but I'm also certain that nearly everyone who has ridden a bike has had at least one or two pinned rims that have a brake bump in them.

Welded and machined rims simply do not have the problem. There is nothing wrong with building a wheel with either kind of rim. Personally, I prefer a nice smooth braking surface of a welded and machined rim without having to futz with smoothing the joint myself. That said, the Delgados I have will be in service for a long time before I have to replace them and
they will have the annoying bump until they are gone.

Now, if you want to come over and feel the joint for yourself, feel free. I know enough about wheels and rims and brakes to know what the problem is and that it exists...and I'm not the only one who has ever experienced it.
First your right there is no problem with building a rim with machined or pinned.

If your Salsa's have a problem then maybe the original poster needs to stay away from them and look instead at the Sun.

And I never said you were the only one to experience it, I said cheap (or older if any are still around) pinned wheels could have that problem.

My problem with your statements was that you were classifying all pinned wheels as having the problems your experiencing and that just pure crap. Most rims on the market today that are pinned do not have that problem. You bought a cheap rim at $40, it's been probably been 30 years since I spent $40 for a rim and with the dollar inflation factor...well you got the idea. I can't even begin to list all the different brands of pinned rims I've had not alone all the guys I use to ride with back in the day before machined rims came along, and only a very few (I never had any problems either after sanding or never sanding) had problems with what your describing. There were some instances of cheap rims where all the sanding in the world wouldn't smooth out!

My oldest rims are on my Trek 660, their about 7 years old with about 35k miles on them, made by Torelli called the Master Series, a pinned rim I never had to sand; these were about $65 dollars each back then.

I'm not doubting what your saying what is happening to yours, just don't include all pinned rims in your judgement.

Have you gone through the "futz" of sanding the rim yourself yet? If so how are they now? If their still doing the bump then I would contact Salsa and ask for an adjustment if their not outside the warranty period.
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Old 09-05-08, 10:35 PM   #14
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My problem with your statements was that you were classifying all pinned wheels as having the problems your experiencing and that just pure crap. Most rims on the market today that are pinned do not have that problem. You bought a cheap rim at $40, it's been probably been 30 years since I spent $40 for a rim and with the dollar inflation factor...well you got the idea. I can't even begin to list all the different brands of pinned rims I've had not alone all the guys I use to ride with back in the day before machined rims came along, and only a very few (I never had any problems either after sanding or never sanding) had problems with what your describing. There were some instances of cheap rims where all the sanding in the world wouldn't smooth out!
Perhaps you should read a little more closely before you jump in the middle of me. I said

Quote:
The Delgados are about as good as any other rim. They don't have machined brake surfaces so they can have an annoying bump at the joint but that's typical of many nonmachined rims.
I did not say all. However, I have never experienced a pinned rim that didn't have a misaligned joint. That's the reason that I use machined rims. The Delgados are not bad rims, nor is the bump anything but annoying. I don't know that I would purchase them again and they were only purchased because the bike they were going on is a Salsa.
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Old 09-06-08, 07:10 AM   #15
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Thanks for all your advice.
I'm aware of the need for good, double butted spokes.
The axle I have has 36 holes and 36 worked OK for me on my other bike so that's what I'm going with.

I also realize that it's the build that is most important.
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Old 09-06-08, 08:32 AM   #16
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When I rebuilt my 700c tandem wheels I used Velocity Dyad rims...........The same rim extrusion in a 26" size is called Aero Heat.

+1 on the Velocity's. I recently built a wheelset for my Long Haul Trucker using Velocity Aero Heat rims (26" version of 700c Dyad) laced to XT hubs, 36 spokes front and rear. Great stuff. I found out about the Velocity's reading reports from folks who've done a bunch of touring on them. I think they're much better than either the Suns or the Salsas-
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Old 09-06-08, 09:38 AM   #17
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Thanks for all your advice.
I'm aware of the need for good, double butted spokes.
The axle I have has 36 holes and 36 worked OK for me on my other bike so that's what I'm going with.

I also realize that it's the build that is most important.
Try and find the Alpines. They are worth the effort.
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Old 09-06-08, 10:15 AM   #18
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Try and find the Alpines. They are worth the effort.
By the way; your absolutely correct about the Alpines for loaded touring, the best spoke made for that purpose.
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Old 09-06-08, 03:17 PM   #19
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Well I ordered the Salsa - that was before most of the posts. If I had to do it again I think that I'd try for the Velocity. I've heard good things about them before. Maybe I'll call my LBS on Monday to see if he can change my order.
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Old 09-06-08, 03:19 PM   #20
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Try and find the Alpines. They are worth the effort.
I never heard of Alpine spokes. Are they stronger than other DT spokes?
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Old 09-06-08, 08:48 PM   #21
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I never heard of Alpine spokes. Are they stronger than other DT spokes?
DT makes the Alpine III, they are stronger then the others but an overkill and thus heavier then standard DT like the Competition's for standard road bikes. The Alpine's are intended for loaded touring bikes.
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