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  1. #1
    Cycling is Self-Therapy pdxcyclist's Avatar
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    ATB Rim Failure: Need recommendation for replacement

    My rear rim has failed on my Trek 6700. It's a Bontrager Superstock rim (28 spoke), and it's flared out on both sides of the valve stem in a most bizarre fashion, to the point of nearly locking in the brake pads. Disappointing, because I only had about 1,100 miles on the rim, almost all on-road. It may have been caused by hittling a pothole, but I don't recall anything disasterous.

    I had to commute home tonight with the rear brake disabled. At home, I trued it, and tried to bend the flare in the rim on one side of the valve stem back straight. I then trued the wheel fairly well, and reinstalled. Soon as the tire was back to recommended pressure (Armadillo), the rim had flared and locked in the pads again, apparently on both sides.

    So, if I'm commuting about 80 miles a week on this bike, and I like to take it on fireroads and some trails in the summer on vacation, what would you recommend as a good replacement rim. I don't want anything too flimsy. Also, I'm tempted by the ceramics, since I ride in the rain a fair deal, and I wouldn't mind better stopping power-- but are they reliable enough for heavy use.

    It also crosses my mind that my choices may be limited since my rear hub is a 28 hole, although I could replace it with an XT 32 hole.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by pdxcyclist; 02-26-04 at 09:34 PM.

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  2. #2
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    I'd suggest these

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    Cycling is Self-Therapy pdxcyclist's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link.

    So what's the story with Sun Rhyno Lite Rims. I've heard that others like them. Are they tough, light, both? $90 seems real attractive for a full wheelset with LX.

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  4. #4
    Yup pyze-guy's Avatar
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    Mavic rims. I can't speak for others but I have two sets of mavics. My 231cd's (ceramic) is over 10 years old and been trued once. Great and super light. I use them for every riding condition. They came used on the fat chance I bought off a courier in '92, so they were probably pretty abused before I got them.
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    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxcyclist
    Thanks for the link.

    So what's the story with Sun Rhyno Lite Rims. I've heard that others like them. Are they tough, light, both? $90 seems real attractive for a full wheelset with LX.
    They aren't super light but they are defiantly strong. I use Rhynolites laced to XT disc hubs on my trail bike and have had no problems with them, heck I haven't had to true them either. The Double wall eyeleted construction makes for an extremely good wheel. IMHO

    (Jus some background: I'm a Clydesdale and I'm NOT gentle on equipment)

  6. #6
    Cycling is Self-Therapy pdxcyclist's Avatar
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    Pyze,

    I like Mavic as well. Open 4 CDs are my choice on my road bike (non ceramic). For my commuter, though, going with the 517 ceramics looks like it would require a V brake upgrade. I have LX V brakes now, and I don't think there's ceramic pads for them, so I'd have to install XT or XTR V brakes. I still like the idea for rain braking, though.

    The non-ceramic 517s are also attractive. Colorado Cyclist has a good price on them at the moment (32 hole).

    Raiyn,

    Thanks for the extra info. I have an extra Ritchey Rock 415e rear wheel on an XT hub in the garage that I had problems with (wouldn't hold a true very long, loose spokes). I'm going to rebuild it once more (with Spokeprep) as a temporary wheel until I decide on a replacement/repair for the Superstock. I like keeping two wheelsets for our mountain bikes (one for road, one for trail).

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  7. #7
    Yup pyze-guy's Avatar
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    I have the mavic x139's on my c-dale. They are non ceramic. Used these all last year on my commuter and had no problems under any condition. I have a set of Sun Rims on my beater, they are the zj39, don't like them that much. They came with the bike. Could just be the snob factor in me though. As soon as I get some cash I'm having the 231cd rebuilt to go from a 7 to 9 speed. good luck
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxcyclist
    Thanks for the link.

    So what's the story with Sun Rhyno Lite Rims. I've heard that others like them. Are they tough, light, both? $90 seems real attractive for a full wheelset with LX.
    I've built up Rhyno Lite wheelsets for both of my sons who do mostly freeride stuff and can be hard on equipment. They are both sold on Rhyno Lites. My only objection is that mounting tires on Rhyno Lites can test your vocabulary. Not something you should do with impressionable kids within earshot.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
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    I run a Rhyno Lite on my MTB. It is not the lightest rim in the world, but it is super tough. Tire mounting is a bit tough because they are wide and deep.

  10. #10
    Cycling is Self-Therapy pdxcyclist's Avatar
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    I noticed that the Rhynos looked wide and deep. I wonder if that would affect one's choice of tire sizes, especially in the road/slick category.

    Meanwhile, I puzzle why my Superstock rim failed so quickly. My commute is steep, and I was doing a lot of braking in wet and gritty conditions (to the point of my pads wearing out a month ago), and I wonder if I didn't just grind the rim into submission.

    If that's the case, I wonder if I shouldn't consider a switch to disc brakes. I believe my frame and fork have mounts for them, and it would be a matter of disc hubs, and then perhaps the mechanical Avid discs. I've always liked the idea of discs for braking in the rain, and it would definately reduce the type of rim wear I've been inflicting.
    Last edited by pdxcyclist; 02-27-04 at 12:18 PM.

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  11. #11
    Senior Member GreenFix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxcyclist
    I noticed that the Rhynos looked wide and deep. I wonder if that would affect one's choice of tire sizes, especially in the road/slick category.

    Meanwhile, I puzzle why my Superstock rim failed so quickly. My commute is steep, and I was doing a lot of braking in wet and gritty conditions (to the point of my pads wearing out a month ago), and I wonder if I didn't just grind the rim into submission.

    If that's the case, I wonder if I shouldn't consider a switch to disc brakes. I believe my frame and fork have mounts for them, and it would be a matter of disc hubs, and then perhaps the mechanical Avid discs. I've always liked the idea of discs for braking in the rain, and it would definately reduce the type of rim wear I've been inflicting.

    I have Rhyno lites on deore disk hubs, and they have been great. I have ridden them mostly in very wet off road conditions. I run a front disk and rear cantilever,and the braking has been excellent. You could always upgrade a bit at a time.

    On a separate note, how much braking do you do with the rear? Judging by your bike stable (I'm envious) you probably know this already, but the majority of your power is in your front brake. Are the conditions you ride in real severe? Your experience does not speak well for the superstock rims. I'm curious to find out what you end up doing.

  12. #12
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    Rear rims tend to get it worse in bad weather because the front tyre throws grit onto them which can get stuck in the pads and quickly eats away at the rim.

    Brake pads can make a difference, you might want to try a different brand, koolstop have a good reputation.

    Disks willl stop the problem but are quite expensive.

  13. #13
    I drink your MILKSHAKE Raiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxcyclist
    I noticed that the Rhynos looked wide and deep. I wonder if that would affect one's choice of tire sizes, especially in the road/slick category.

    ....snip.....
    I just mounted up a set of 26 x 1.5 Sefas Drifters on a set of Rhyno's for a customer with no problems


    They wouldn't be my first choice (I'd perfer some Continental's or that new Specialized slick) but that's what was requested.

  14. #14
    Cycling is Self-Therapy pdxcyclist's Avatar
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    Thanks to everyone for the comments.

    I just got back from Bainbridge Island in Washington, and the Chilly Hilly Classic (on my Bruce Gordon). Wonderful ride in the sun. Wife got to ride her T700. What a great way to recharge the batteries.

    Braking was done normally on the bike (mostly front), and I've never worn out a rim before. (I've wrecked a rim while truing once, but that was different.) I would consider the conditions severe, though. I've been commuting 5 days a week, at at the first of January we had a week of snow. In Portland, they put down sand and gravel, and that has stayed on the shoulders ever since.

    Then, riding in the rain on a bunch of sand and grit wasn't fun for the pads or rims, espcially in the back where I used to have two panniers that seemed to hold everything in a confined space. (I now use a small backpack, and no rack or panniers.) Also, I was cleaning the bike after every rain ride, but I wasn't cleaning the rims (dumb, perhaps), mostly because the rear was pretty inaccessible behind the rack and panniers. That may have been part of the problem.

    I like the idea of the Rhynos, but tonight I need to get my backup wheel with the Ritchey Rock 415e rim trued to roll for tomorrow morning. I have this rim on the front wheel currently, and I've had to true it recently, but overall it seems to be holding up fine.

    As for discs, I still like the idea. For about $270 I could have a set of Rhynos with XT disc hubs, and two Avid mechs 160mm disc set-ups. That is spendy, but I wonder if it'd be a better long term solution. I saw a similar set-up on a Lightspeed Apalachian road bike yesterday (those Seattle riders, geez). Or, as mention, I could go ceramic with the right rim and a V-brake upgrade.

    For now, though, I need my temporary 415e to true up, and I need to re-set the rear derailleur to ride on a seven cog hub while I ponder the options.

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    I don't understand why you need to go with v-brakes to upgrade to ceramics...I'm sure there are ceramic pads out there somewhere for cantis...am I wrong?

  16. #16
    Cycling is Self-Therapy pdxcyclist's Avatar
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    Based on my limited research, I couldn't find ceramic-rated pads for LX V brakes. They are available for the cartridge XT and XTR V brakes. It's not too big of a deal-- I saw XT V brakes at Performance yesterday for $25.

    I did a tight tune of my backup rear wheel (Ritchey Rock 415e) last night, and it rode in fine this morning on my commute. Maybe I can just use it for the summer, and then maybe splurge on a disc setup this fall when the rains return.

    Beautiful commuting weather in Portland this morning-- clear and cold, lots of light and a nice sunrise. I think I might be doing this for awhile.

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    I have 32 hole Tioga XC (Double walled and eyelets, 3bt spokes) I weigh 230 and carry about 10~15lbs in a pannier. I have had to have them trued 3 times, or about once a month since getting them. I had low end 36 Alex rims before and they stayed true much longer. Who can reccomend a 36 or even a 40 hole rim & Hub (non disk) for me? I am getting a bit fed up with having it trued. I like to run 1.25" slicks though, is this possible (and have a tough rim) or would I need to go to 1.5 for the rear only?
    "After a certain point, all dangers are equal'

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    Do I have this right... you have LX V's that do not have the cartridge style pads and are thinking of getting XT V's to get the cartridge style pads? If that is the case just get a set of cartridges and bolt them to your LX brakes. I did the same with my Deore and Acera V brakes with no problem. I'm using yellow cool stop pads in them with a Sun CR18 rim and they work great in wet/muddy/gritty conditions.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Avalanche325's Avatar
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    I use a Specialized Armadillo (slick) on the Rhyno Lite.

    In the wet, stay away from Shimano pads. When I lived in a wet, muddy area I would go through a set of pads in two offroad rides!!!

  20. #20
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrisA
    Do I have this right... you have LX V's that do not have the cartridge style pads and are thinking of getting XT V's to get the cartridge style pads? If that is the case just get a set of cartridges and bolt them to your LX brakes. I did the same with my Deore and Acera V brakes with no problem. I'm using yellow cool stop pads in them with a Sun CR18 rim and they work great in wet/muddy/gritty conditions.
    Cartridge pads are great for an easy quick change for when they wear, but the the cartridge pad system can cause problems on heavy braking for Clydesdale's. I'm no Clydesdale, but two up on the tandem is, and we find that we can shred and rip out a cartridge block, very easily, and for no reason, other than they are not man enough. I changed away from shimano blocks for one reason, and that is that they squeal, but they do work, do not have excessive wear,(Except in exceptional conditions like lots of Mud, or grit), and are obtainable every where.

    Getting back to the Rim Situation, as originally posted. It will probably be cheaper to get a complete new wheel, from a reputable builder, that to have a hub re-rimmed. On the rim front, ceramic rims do last a lot longer, providing the correct block is used, and are not damaged by incidents like dinging the rim. The extra expense is worth it, but only if you can look after them. I changed the rhino-lites on the tandem after 400 miles, due to them wearing out too quickly,They are now a good spare set of wheels, and went to Mavic rims. I went to D532's due to weight of the tandem, but if you are thinking of ceramic rims, you will find the choice limited.

  21. #21
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Ed
    I have 32 hole Tioga XC (Double walled and eyelets, 3bt spokes) I weigh 230 and carry about 10~15lbs in a pannier. I have had to have them trued 3 times, or about once a month since getting them. I had low end 36 Alex rims before and they stayed true much longer. Who can reccomend a 36 or even a 40 hole rim & Hub (non disk) for me? I am getting a bit fed up with having it trued. I like to run 1.25" slicks though, is this possible (and have a tough rim) or would I need to go to 1.5 for the rear only?
    250 lb rider, on 32 hole, Hooper rims from Giant , and retrueing once a month was good going, Luckily I talked this rider into getting LX hubs, 36 DT double butted spokes on Mavic Freeride rims, 18 months later and they were respoked, as he lost 3 spokes on one ride. Rims and hubs were still perfect. This was the first time any work had been done to the wheels what so- ever. On the tyre front, this heavy rider did borrow 1,25 slicks for one ride, but he said they felt unstable, When he went to 1.5 he felt more comfortable, but they were a bit slower than the 1,25's.

  22. #22
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    Stapfam,
    Cheers M8. I was actually looking at a guy in the UK to handbuild some stuff but forgot to call him yesterday from work I think I may have to go to 1.5's for the rear. Shouldnt be too bad if I overinflate them about 10%.
    "After a certain point, all dangers are equal'

  23. #23
    Cycling is Self-Therapy pdxcyclist's Avatar
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    Since my LX V brakes don't have cartridge pads, I didn't think they were useable. They use threaded blocks, and I didn't see a ceramic-rated threaded block for the LX V brakes. As noted, XT V brakes are relatively affordable on sale ($25), unless there's an easy way to adapt the LX V brakes to cartridges.

    As for new rims vs. new wheels, I've been successful building my own wheels in the past (only hard part for me is getting the right spoke lengths), but my rear hub with the failed rim is a 28 spoke, and I'd rather have a 32. 36 would work too, but again it may limit choices.

    My backup wheel is working well after I retuned it rather tightly (it had problems with persistent loose spokes in the past, even after a $60 LBS truing job with spoke prep). Only bad part is that my LX nine-speed derailleur is shift rather poorly on the seven cog freehub of my backup wheel. I've worked with most possible cable adjustments, but still it has upshift problems (two shifts for one gear change, sudden cog jumps on its own). Am I missing an adjustment, or do I need a seven-speed derailleur?

    What I'd like to to do is enjoy the "less rain months" with the backup wheel, and then save up for an XT disc wheelset with rhynolites (or Mavic 517) for this fall, along with the Avid mechs.

    '99 Bruce Gordon BLT
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