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Old 12-20-08, 12:31 AM   #1
jowwo
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new wheel/hub questions

I seem to be confusing myself so I thought I'd ask for a little help from the forum.
I have an 1989 trek 1500. I'd like to put new wheel sets on it. I wanted to keep my old setup complete both because it's the original parts and because it seems cheaper to buy wheel sets off the internet than to have my hubs laced to new rims. So right now I have shimano 600, 7 speed uniglide hub that is 126 mm wide. If I go with a new hub it will be 130mm and I will have to buy a new 7 speed cassette for the hyperglide and a spacer to go behind it on the 8/9/10 freehub. My questions are-Can I stretch the aluminum frame for the new 130mm hub? And if not, Can I put my uniglide freehub on a modern ultegra hub? Will that make this set up 126mm again? And, if I bought a complete wheel off the internet would I then have to take it to my LBS to have it redished? So If I'm going to all this trouble, would it be more cost effective to just have new rims laced to my old hubs?
Thanks for the help!
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Old 12-20-08, 01:38 AM   #2
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Just buy a 126mm hub.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Uniglide-Rear-HU...3%3A1|294%3A50

I'm sure you can find some online stores selling some too. (but prob not as cheap)
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Old 12-20-08, 06:52 AM   #3
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thanks for the link. If I end up building a wheel, I'll do something like that so I can keep mine together
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Old 12-20-08, 09:04 AM   #4
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Aluminum is more subject to cracking if you push it to 130 mm.
Finding UG 126 mm hubs is pretty easy and inexpensive.
You might also find a HG 126 mm 105 or 600 hub that would allow you to use UG cassette and HG cassettes. HG 126 mm hubs are harder to find and usually more expensive because there are lots of riders with good bicycles like yours who would like to replace/upgrade there rear wheel.
My experience with UG cassettes and chains is they last longer, but don't shift quite as quickly as HG.
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Old 12-20-08, 09:34 AM   #5
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On a steel frame I'd just put the 130 on, but aluminum doesn't stretch so I'd agree with going with a 126 spaced wheel. But sometimes the spacing on the frame isn't precise to begin with, so maybe you could try putting a 130 wheel on it to see how it goes. Just borrow one and try. If you have to force it in, don't do it. If it slides on, like mine did on my steel frame, you'll be OK.

I don't know about swapping freehub bodies on the wheel, but the spacing refers to axle width, independent of freehub.

I've said this many times already, a 10speed wheel with friction shifters works great. You don't have to move the lever much, the shifting is silent without the clicking sound, you don't get stuck between gears like you did with the old stuff because there isn't any space between gears, there aren't compatibility issues like there are with indexed gear. It just works. The ramps on the 10sp cassettes make a bigger difference to shifting performance than the indexing does.
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Old 12-20-08, 10:33 AM   #6
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I had (and sold though I regret it now) a Cannondale Criterium frame with 126mm rear spacing and it easily accepted a 130mm rear hub. The rear triangle easily flexed to allow the wheel to slip in.
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Old 12-20-08, 01:15 PM   #7
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If you get new wheels, here are some options:

1) Keep the rear hub at 130mm and just spread the rear triangle. I've done this on my old 126mm alumimum bike but not permanently (just to use my tricked-out aero wheels for special occasions).

2) Transplant your 7-speed UG freehub to the new rear wheel. This will automatically drop the OLD down to 126mm and you will need to redish the wheel (decrease the dish, i.e. a stronger wheel in theory). Note: The axle may be too long. The 1500 is Al so it probably has thick dropouts, but the axle may still extend beyond them (the QR won't hold the wheel in place if this happens). You may need to transplant the axle along with the freehub.

3) Some road rear hubs come with a ~4mm spacer on the non-drive side (see attached image). Simply take this out, recenter the axle, and you have a ~126mm OLD with a 8/9/10-speed freehub. You will need to redish the wheel (increase the dish). Same possible axle issues as 2).

4) Do a combination of 2) and 3). Transplant the freehub, remove the 4mm spacer on the non-drive side but replace with (2) 2mm spacers, one on each side. The OLD will be about 126mm but there will be no need to redish the wheel. This also has the potential axle issue.

EDIT: BTW: If you transplant, I recommend going to a 7-speed HG body. They aren't expensive and HG shifts much better and you can actually find new cassettes. http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#bodies

EDIT#2: I just checked techdocs.shimano.com and the "left hand axle spacer" is 4.8mm for 105 and Ultegra 9 and 10 so if you're doing 4) you'd put 2mm spacer on the drive side and 3mm on the non-drive. The "left hand axle spacer" is 5.8mm for Dura-Ace 9 so it would be 2mm drive/4mm non-drive. Also, don't get Dura-Ace 10-speed if you are intending to transplant as that freehub is totally different.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HUH336.jpg (12.8 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by Gonzo Bob; 12-20-08 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 12-20-08, 09:10 PM   #8
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Thanks for the help. After looking closer at the cassette today, it looks like some of the teeth are broke off the gears. So if I'm going to have to replace the cassette, I might as well switch to hyperglide.
If I did something like a nine speed cassette and went to friction shifting, I would need a different derailer and shifter? Or would the current down tube shifter work and I would just need a new RD?

gonzo Bob, If I do option 3 with a 8/9/10 freehub and use a 7 speed cassette, do I use a 4mm spacer behind the cassette on the freehub?
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Old 12-20-08, 09:16 PM   #9
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With friction shifting any derailleur will work. The downtube shifters should have a friction mode if they are indexed type. I don't know specifically what yours have.
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Old 12-20-08, 09:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jowwo View Post
After looking closer at the cassette today, it looks like some of the teeth are broke off the gears.
The teeth on the cassette cogs are likely shaped to assist in smoother shifting. Same thing goes for the chainring teeth.
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Old 12-21-08, 09:35 AM   #11
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UG cogs often have a tooth or two cut short but I have broken some.

4.5mm spacer required with 3) and a 7sp cassette.
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Old 12-21-08, 10:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
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UG cogs often have a tooth or two cut short but I have broken some.
Interesting. Were they just worn really badly or did you damage them in some non-normal-use scenario?
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Old 12-21-08, 01:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jowwo View Post
TIf I did something like a nine speed cassette and went to friction shifting, I would need a different derailer and shifter? Or would the current down tube shifter work and I would just need a new RD?
No need for new shifters or RD if you're using friction shifting. What you have will work fine. Only thing need is narrower chain for the narrower cog spacing.

Quote:
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gonzo Bob, If I do option 3 with a 8/9/10 freehub and use a 7 speed cassette, do I use a 4mm spacer behind the cassette on the freehub?
Personally I wouldn't reduce a 8-10spd hub down 126mm. The amount of dish would be extreme and result in a weak wheel. If you really wanted to use 7-spd on a newer wheel at 126mm spacing, I'd replace the 8-10spd freehub with an old 7-spd one and remove 4-5mm worth of spacers from the right side of the axle to reduce dish.

There's no problems with spreading the dropouts 2mm per side to accommodate modern wheels. Just pull them apart with your thumbs as you push the wheel with your forefingers. When Dura-Ace went to 8-spd/130mm spacing way back when, the hubs has conical bevels on the outside of the locknuts. This helps spread the dropouts apart and squeeze the hub in. Really handy for fast 1-handed wheel changes in the pit.

I just wouldn't try to cold-set an aluminium frame to 130mm. That typically requires forcing the material past its yield-strength for it to stay apart. Not a good idea on aluminium with its finite fatigue-life. But no problems spreading it out slightly each time you insert the wheel.

Last edited by DannoXYZ; 12-22-08 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 12-21-08, 09:16 PM   #14
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It was new cassette and chain under normal use. Broke 3 or 4 teeth off one of the middle cogs so it was probably just defective.
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Old 12-21-08, 09:23 PM   #15
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It was new cassette and chain under normal use. Broke 3 or 4 teeth off one of the middle cogs so it was probably just defective.
Wow, that had to be scary. Obviously you survived the experience though
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Old 12-22-08, 05:16 PM   #16
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Wow, that had to be scary.
Not really. I was starting out from a red light and the chain skipped a little and then engaged. It skipped occasionally for the rest of the ride (esp when powering up hills) but was fine if I pedaled smooooothly. I didn't even know I had broken some teeth off until I got home and took a look.
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Old 12-23-08, 08:17 AM   #17
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I just bought off of ebay, an NOS hub with a hyperglide 7 speed freehub. So I need to remove 4mm from the right side to make it 126mm and I'm good to go I guess.

I didn't know that some of the teeth on the uniglide cassette were broke off from the factory. I'll have to go look again and see if that's what's going on. They have a pretty irregular pattern though. Are the HG cassettes that way too?
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Old 12-23-08, 11:32 AM   #18
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I just bought off of ebay, an NOS hub with a hyperglide 7 speed freehub. So I need to remove 4mm from the right side to make it 126mm and I'm good to go I guess.
Is this to use the NOS freehub for a transplant onto an new 8/9/10sp wheel? Then all you need to do is transplant the freehub body (and probably the axle and right side cone). The 7sp freehub is already ~4mm shorter than the 8/9/10 and will reduce the OLD to 126 without removing any spacers.
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Old 12-29-08, 07:10 PM   #19
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So then would the wheel still need to be redished?
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