Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-21-08, 07:50 PM   #1
TromboneAl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Far, Far Northern California
Bikes: 1997 Specialized M2Pro
Posts: 2,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Centering "Detent" on Headset

I just got a Craigslist Peugeot for my daughter to ride while she's visiting, and it's got this feature or problem that I've never heard about.

It's a little hard to describe. As you turn the handlebars, when you get to the center position, it kind of sticks. Hope that makes sense.

Is this intentional or does it indicate some problem???

I can't wait to hear the answer.
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 07:54 PM   #2
10 Wheels
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Bikes: 2010 Expedition, 03 GTO
Posts: 29,677
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Sound like a problem.
Bad fork bearings.
I don;t really know,
I have a 82 Peugeot. It does not have that problem.
__________________
[SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI
10 Wheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 07:59 PM   #3
TromboneAl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Far, Far Northern California
Bikes: 1997 Specialized M2Pro
Posts: 2,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, I found out more about it on this thread.

Can someone explain why removing the bearing cages solves the problem?
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 08:10 PM   #4
jgedwa
surly old man
 
jgedwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Bikes: IRO Mark V, Karate Monkey half fat, Trek 620 IGH, Cannondale 26/24 MTB, Amp Research B3, and more.
Posts: 3,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The balls in the headset have sort of worn little depressions to sit in. No matter how well you clean, lube and adjust the HS, the balls will want to just sit in those same depressions again.

Unless you change the number of balls, then the balls will not be able to jostle each other into those holes. When you go from caged to non-caged bearings, you add a ball or two. So, this is an old trick to try to milk a little more mileage out of a worn headset.

It sort of works. The races are worn however and it will never feel very smooth again. But, depending on how lucky and picky you are, you might find that it works for you.

jim
__________________
Cross Check Nexus7, IRO Mark V, Trek 620 Nexus7, Karate Monkey half fat, IRO Model 19 fixed, Amp Research B3, Surly 1x1 half fat fixed, and more...
--------------------------
SB forever
jgedwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 08:12 PM   #5
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,628
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
You might as well do it right and replace the headset while you've got it apart.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 08:33 PM   #6
TromboneAl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Far, Far Northern California
Bikes: 1997 Specialized M2Pro
Posts: 2,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the good explanation. Until I can get into town to get new bearings or a new headset, is it dangerous to ride it in it's current state?
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 08:52 PM   #7
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
If she tries to ride it no-handed, definitely. If there is a lot of drag in the bearing, maybe.
Road Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 08:54 PM   #8
jgedwa
surly old man
 
jgedwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Bikes: IRO Mark V, Karate Monkey half fat, Trek 620 IGH, Cannondale 26/24 MTB, Amp Research B3, and more.
Posts: 3,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Most probably perfectly safe.

Dirtdrop is right that the only real solution to a worn headset is to replace it. It really makes a subtle, but important difference to have decent headset performance. Consider that the way you balance a bike is by subtlely steering right or left to keep the bike under you. When that process is smooth, riding is a joy. When it is crunchy, it seems like a small chore. But I can't see it would really be unsafe. Maybe someone will correct me though.

jim
__________________
Cross Check Nexus7, IRO Mark V, Trek 620 Nexus7, Karate Monkey half fat, IRO Model 19 fixed, Amp Research B3, Surly 1x1 half fat fixed, and more...
--------------------------
SB forever
jgedwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 09:14 PM   #9
the beef
100% USDA certified
 
the beef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle -> NYC
Bikes: Bianchi XL EV2
Posts: 4,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Brinnelled headset is what you likely have. Google the term.

It's caused by age, basically. When you ride a bike you spend 95% of your time with your handlebars pointing basically straight forward. Over time your bearings leave a slight indent in the straight-ahead position, which causes a very gentle 'clicking' sensation when you steer, as if the bars are locking into the straight-ahead position.

A temporary solution can be to loosen the headset slightly if you have an over-tight headset. But my advice is to basically replace the thing.
the beef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 09:18 PM   #10
Lurch
Fossil
 
Lurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Bikes: Bianchi Bergamo, Raleigh Misceo
Posts: 332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I picked up a beater Huffy (is that redundant?) from a Bonita Beach thrift shop for riding in FL during the few weeks we stayed there each winter. The headset bearings races were really bad and riding it required a lot of concentration to keep it headed in the right direction. It was like riding on grooved pavement all the time. I carried some loose balls down the second year and that made a big difference in the handling. It was much more relaxing to ride and the effect lasted at least the 8 weeks we were there. We won't be going back to that place this year so the Huffy is our landlord's problem now. She was tickled to get it to include in her list of amenities.
Lurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 09:25 PM   #11
TromboneAl
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Far, Far Northern California
Bikes: 1997 Specialized M2Pro
Posts: 2,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If I were keeping the bike, I'd definitely get a new headset. I got it so that my daughter can ride with wife and me while she's home for Christmas break. Then I'll sell it, with full disclosure.

OTOH, how much would a new headset be? Would this one be one that would work?
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-08, 09:39 PM   #12
the beef
100% USDA certified
 
the beef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle -> NYC
Bikes: Bianchi XL EV2
Posts: 4,022
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That one would work, yes. It's on the cheap end but it'll get the job done.

And by the way I saw the pics of the Peugeot in the other thread you posted. Nice catch at that price.
the beef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-08, 12:25 PM   #13
rmfnla
Senior Member
 
rmfnla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)
Posts: 5,952
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by the beef View Post
Brinnelled headset is what you likely have. Google the term.

It's caused by age, basically. When you ride a bike you spend 95% of your time with your handlebars pointing basically straight forward. Over time your bearings leave a slight indent in the straight-ahead position, which causes a very gentle 'clicking' sensation when you steer, as if the bars are locking into the straight-ahead position.

A temporary solution can be to loosen the headset slightly if you have an over-tight headset. But my advice is to basically replace the thing.
I don't think so.

Riding with a loose headset causes this. The repeated impact when the front wheel hit bumps pounds dents into the race (the balls are harder than the race).
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
rmfnla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-08, 12:46 PM   #14
Gonzo Bob
cycles per second
 
Gonzo Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Minnesota
Bikes: Vitus Aluminum, DiamondBack Apex, Softride Powerwing 700, "Generic" Ishiwata 022, Trek OCLV 110
Posts: 1,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That Ritchey headset might works but it seems awfully tall at 40mm stack height. Most 1" threaded headset are around 33-35mm. A headset that is too tall will not engage enough threads to secure the fork. A headset that is "too short" can always be made taller with headset spacers. If you really want to get the Ritchey, you should measure the current headset to make sure that 40mm will work OK.
Gonzo Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-08, 01:01 PM   #15
dabac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 5,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
.... is it dangerous to ride it in it's current state?
Well, it'll have lost some minor fraction of its performance, and if I stretch my imagination I might just be able to come up with a situation (apart from riding no-handed) where it might have some importance. Still, IRL I'd be much more worried about oil slicks, tire blowouts and suchlike.
dabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-08, 06:37 PM   #16
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,628
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Now that I've seen pictures of the bike I think it deserves better than that Richie Logic headset.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-08, 09:44 PM   #17
Marlin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, that bike is definitely worth a new headset. I don't know if sizing for a peugeot would be a problem. I had the same problem, pretty bad actually, with "indexed steering" (Sheldon's term.) I removed the bearing races, rotated them about 1/4 turn, and reinstalled them. That made a huge improvement. I forget where I saw this tip, possibly Sheldon Brown, but it definitely worked. And it really wasn't that difficult to do.
Marlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-08, 09:08 PM   #18
blue steal
Day Tourer
 
blue steal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes: 93Univega/Carisma/Cromo/7spd
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Marlin that's what I was told to do also by my LBS.
Also, went to loose balls on the bottom because that takes all the abuse. Problem of indexed steering was much reduced, but not totally eliminated.
blue steal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:00 AM.