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Old 12-22-08, 07:30 AM   #1
walee112
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Klein Internal Routing Tube BROKEE!!! HELP!

OH NO MY BELOVED KLEIN! =( i have a 97 quantum race <3 but recently i was changing the cables out with some newer dura ace cables and external housings but as i was routing the cable through the frame for the rear derailleur i noticed the cable wasn't coming out! the top internal housing must have come off from the insert spot! what do i do now? suggestions? KLEINS OUT OF BUSINESS i cant even call them for their opinion... could my lbs replace it?
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Old 12-22-08, 08:14 AM   #2
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With persistence, you can usually run the cables through. I've routed internal cable bikes that don't have guides inside the tube and have to say its the worst job ever but its doable.

Or its a good excuse to buy a new bike.
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Old 12-22-08, 08:32 AM   #3
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use a strong magnet to guide the cable to the hole. I owned a klein for years and never used the guide tubes. it may take a couple of tries, but you'll get it.
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Old 12-22-08, 09:19 AM   #4
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Do a search for "internal cable routing" and you'll find several techniques for threading cables through blind toptube holes including the "thread and vacuum cleaner" approach.

BTW, Trek is the owner of Klein and they may help if the frame is really beyond use.
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Old 12-22-08, 04:47 PM   #5
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well is there anyway i can buy new inserts? or reattach it? i want to fix the problem. using the magnet and all that will be my plan b. can i call trek and order cable lines or something? i just called my LBS and they said most people take em out. how many of you guys take em out? my rear brake and front derailleurs didnt seem to have this problem... those internal guide tubes stayed in... can i replace the internal guide tube? or is it virtually impossible?

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Old 12-22-08, 06:26 PM   #6
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Is there another way to run the cables? A photo or 3 would help.
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Old 12-22-08, 07:00 PM   #7
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I use the internal housings just to get everything threaded and then I rip them out. Always re-install them when you are running new cables to guide the new cables in. I know that doesn't help you, but like everyone has said, with a little persistence, you can get them to thread without the guides.
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Old 12-22-08, 10:34 PM   #8
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identification of MY problem (my internal guide slipped into the frame):



you see on one side the rail guides are there... i called my local bike shop today and they said that the
guides are removeable and that he personally doesnt even use it (i and some other klein enthusiasts
however would like to use it)... now look at my front derailleur's guide:



Now interestingly if you look on the other sides you can see the previous owner of my bike had flanged
out the end of the internal guide so that it stays put reducing chance of it slipping into the tube, (i
wanna do something like this all around my bike. but heres another potential problem, on the other side
my hole's opening isn't the same:



All there is is a hole for the wire to go in, nothing large enough for a guide to go through... I think the
step down ferrule (that you can see in the other picture, got cracked and that just the remnants of the
other half of the step down ferrule there.. does anyone with experience with kleins possibly know?
becuase the other routing holes have step down ferrules similar (as seen for the front derailleur) and i
suspect that this one should have been a ferrule also. Anyways the other hypothesis that i came up
with is that the derailleur's internal guide was only loosely placed in there after the bike was wired
because the rear brake's internal routing also doesn't have a routing guide. Can i buy these internal
routing guides at my LBS? because i want to make all the internal routes permanently fixed with guides
like my front derailleur is.

to complicate things o.O i read on a search to string the rear brake you take off your seat and pray that
you can stick your finger in there.... well i took the seat off and:



THERES NO HOLE FOR ME TO STICK MY FINGER IN THERE!! all the more reason for me to desire setting up
permanent internal guides. *sigh*

So back to my current problem. when i was changing the cables.. as i was pulling the cable out from the
shifter. the freaking routing guide like got pulled in to the bottom tube and i have no clue as to how to
get it out. (as if stringing a wire wasnt hard enough). anyways im hoping someone will know weather or
not the bottom bracket or the head/stem tube thingy will let my reach my fingers into the bottom tube
or flip my bike over and hope that gravity will pull it out for me. I dont know which type of bracket my
bottom bracket is so i haven't bought a bottom bracket tool yea and i took my stem off and i cant figure
out how the darn stem falls out i tried lightly hammering the top of the stem but it just wouldnt seem to
fall out. (I know that the stem used to be a threaded stem because the guy i bought it from gave me the
bike stock fork too, if that helps any bit. im pretty sure the carbon fork i have on cannot sport any
threads though..) heres a picture of my current strip down:



rough picture of my BB if it helps anyone who would be nice enough to try to identify:



I know i could bring my bike to the lbs and pay billions of dollars for them to certainly fix anything but for
a guy who has always done my own oil changes and tune ups on my car i feel certain that with a forum
like this i can probably figure everything out myself. though once i identify the solution im going to have
to bring my bike into the shop for a tuning of the derailleurs anyways :-P (and if the bottom bracket
opens to the bottom tube they'll have to help me open it up. anyways heres a picture of my bike to give
all the people who actually read this down to the bone a little treat:



Thank You
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Old 12-23-08, 01:29 AM   #9
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Geesh! And ya wonder why Klein went out of business and Trek ate them...

Okay: I agree with the others who said you can do it again - but it will take a long time of trial and error. Magnets may help. And it may break the next day.

Or you can attach some cable-guides (look around) with some housing and rebuild the cable routing. The general idea being to get the cable from shifter to BB under-shell guides. Bit of housing. Twist. Run. Done.

That's a nice Klein frame. Good blue. I'd suggest yellow housing. Good offset. Just because Klein wanted things to go through the downtube don't make it urgent.
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Old 12-23-08, 02:21 AM   #10
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Do you know for a fact that there was a cable sleeve on the rear derailer cable before changing the cable? If you shake the bike can you hear it flopping around in the down tube?

The openings don't look all that different to me. It almost looks like a cable sleeve could fit in there. Some bike shops have the sleeving in stock, it's kinda rare, however.

Better pic required for BB ID. Almost look like wrenchflats on the fixed cup, but hard to tell from that pic. A pic from the other side of the bike might be easier.

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Old 12-23-08, 12:43 PM   #11
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Not addressing your real problem but taking off your fork will require removing the headset's compression ring first. It's the silver-colored split ring right up against the steerer tube in your picture. The ring is tapered and is installed narrow end down to center the steerer in the bearings and does tend to get wedged in place. Work a very small blade screwdriver into the split and gently pull it up to loosen the grip.

Your steerer seems to be either steel or aluminum so you can rap on the top with a mallet to start it moving. Use a block of wood to protect the top of the steerer.
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Old 12-23-08, 02:24 PM   #12
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Not addressing your real problem but taking off your fork will require removing the headset's compression ring first. It's the silver-colored split ring right up against the steerer tube in your picture. The ring is tapered and is installed narrow end down to center the steerer in the bearings and does tend to get wedged in place. Work a very small blade screwdriver into the split and gently pull it up to loosen the grip.

Your steerer seems to be either steel or aluminum so you can rap on the top with a mallet to start it moving. Use a block of wood to protect the top of the steerer.
thank you very much. sorry guys for asking so many questions in that one post im glad you guys are picking them out one at a time and helping me out. ill try removing the steering tube and see if i have a hole there... anyone know the answer to how i'll be able to get the guides out from within my frame though?
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Old 12-23-08, 02:43 PM   #13
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I have bought klein frames from ebay & such that had no cables installed. The method that works best for me is to use a needle & sewing thread. Drop the the needle in one hole & carefully use gravity to guide it out the bigger hole. Believe me it can be done. Once you have the cables in place, sleeve them as others have suggested. You actually can get by with only one sleeve to do all cables. I would not go to the trouble to remove the fork.
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Old 12-23-08, 02:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walee112 View Post
thank you very much. sorry guys for asking so many questions in that one post im glad you guys are picking them out one at a time and helping me out. ill try removing the steering tube and see if i have a hole there... anyone know the answer to how i'll be able to get the guides out from within my frame though?
Well, IF you have concluded that there is indeed a cable sleeve loose in your downtube, and you wind up finding a hole in your headtube/downtube joint, then shake the frame 'til the sleeve comes into the headtube through the hole. Get some long needlenose pliers, tweezers, parts grabber, hemos, tongs, chopsticks, etc and pull it out.

Otherwise try to shake it out through the little hole down by the bottom bracket.

OR, if still no joy, perhaps the Downtube/BB shell joint has a hole, then you can remove your BB and try to yank it outta there.
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Old 12-24-08, 12:56 AM   #15
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Well, IF you have concluded that there is indeed a cable sleeve loose in your downtube, and you wind up finding a hole in your headtube/downtube joint, then shake the frame 'til the sleeve comes into the headtube through the hole. Get some long needlenose pliers, tweezers, parts grabber, hemos, tongs, chopsticks, etc and pull it out.

Otherwise try to shake it out through the little hole down by the bottom bracket.

OR, if still no joy, perhaps the Downtube/BB shell joint has a hole, then you can remove your BB and try to yank it outta there.

YES!!! so tonight i chizzled off the steering tube stopper ring (im probably going to need a new one now) and sure enough there were two dime sized holes for the top tube and the bottom tube. they were small but i was determined! so i shook shook shook like i had no tomorrow and WHATTA YA KNOW! with one last good shake it luckily came through the hole! so i very carefully got a pair of long needle nose pliers grapsed and pushed it out! worked like a charm tomorrow im going to my LBS and trying to get another long nylon guide tube so perhaps i can fit my top tube with a guide for the rear brake. using magnets was the working trick for me to get the wires guided to the other end of the holes... had to use pretty strong magnets though (35 lb's).
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Old 12-24-08, 01:26 AM   #16
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That's great!

Shame about the compression ring. It looks like they're readily available online for about 5 bones, probably at good bike shops, too.
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Old 12-24-08, 02:36 PM   #17
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when i get a new one how do i tighten it back down? tap it lightly from each side?
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Old 12-24-08, 05:51 PM   #18
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when i get a new one how do i tighten it back down? tap it lightly from each side?
No, don't drive it down. Install the compression ring (narrow end facing down, of course) and just push it into place by hand. It will center the steerer in the bearings properly as you adjust the headset play with the top cap's bolt. That's all it needs to do.
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Old 12-24-08, 10:43 PM   #19
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Consider going with a cable system that can have a single full length liner (like Nokon). I don't know if your frame's cable openings are big enough for the nokon cable and liner as they are. A drill bit could be used to fix that problem.

Not everybody likes Nokons, and fewer think they're worth the cost. I love 'em.
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Old 12-25-08, 01:15 AM   #20
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Anytime you are faced with such, and the solution appears that a few good raps with a hammer would be the solution - please remember that bicycles are not cars. You walk by a car garage: BAM! BAM! VRRRRAAAAAA!! BAM!...so forth. Only rarely do you hear a hammer, or other driver-tools, at work around bikes. Bikes require more finesse and delicate approaches. So I am very glad you asked before you went forward.

Bicycle mechanics are closer to being an artist. Car mechanics are closer to sporting enthusiasts. The users are the full spectrum.

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Old 12-25-08, 05:23 AM   #21
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ahah thanks for understanding that its better to ask first than just simply flaming me. MERRY CHRISTMAS guys.

so i found this nokon idea really interesting [link] the guy used teflon cable throughout the entire run of the cable. is this overdoing it? currently the two front and rear derailleurs on my bike have teflon guides perminately fabricated into the frame, so that you can automatically string the cables through the lines... what about the rear brake guide :-P

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