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Old 02-22-09, 04:23 PM   #1
woodenidol
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Increasing low range on 1987 bike

Howdy all,

I somewhat hijacked another posters question, on an earlier post. Most answers were directed at his initial question (as it should be). I did reread some old posts and look at the answers he got, looked around the web a bit more and have formulated a rough plan.

My bike presently has the 105 group, on my 1987 Schwinn Tempo. Gearing is 52/38-13/24.
My thinking is that I have these options.

Change front crank to either a triple or a compact double.

Broaden the range on the rear freewheel.

Looks like I will need a wider range RD to accomplish either of these options. Im thinking I would prefer the compact double over the triple. I am thinking of changing out the freewheel first, and then moving to the cranks if I find it neccasary. This will involve just an initial change in freewheel and RD.

Im looking at a RD that will accomodate a 16t front change, a max cog of 34 on the back with a total tooth capacity of 36t.

So Im thinking my initial purchases to be something like the following.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Old-Stock-Sh...742.m153.l1262

http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cg...d=811536721399

Using the 14/28 or the mega range 14/34 (this seems a bit odd, but if it shifts fine maybe a nice bailout?)

This takes me from a current low of 42.4 Gear inches, to a low of either 36.3 with the 28 or 29.9 with the 34. A final change to a compact double gets me to 26.8.

First stage can be done for about $60 dollars, so it seems a pretty decent change for the money, while letting me keep my index shifting intact and not worrying about frame issues of going to the newer 8-10 cog cassettes.

So a reasonble plan? Short sighted, better alternatives?
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Old 02-22-09, 04:37 PM   #2
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you need a freewheel or cassette?
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Old 02-22-09, 04:44 PM   #3
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If the rear der is a short cage it prob won't take a bailout gear larger than 30T.

While you can use that Deore rear der a 7 speed can be found cheaper. You may want to upgrade, just sayin'.

8 speed stuff is real cheap on ebay, if you want to consider that route.

I think you've got a good idea going. What I'm not certain about is what you need.
Would a 30T bailout with a compact crank be enough?

If it's not, it's not a big deal. I use really low gearing because I tour.

Btw, Nashbar sometimes has good prices on stuff.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...A%20Freewheels
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Old 02-22-09, 05:05 PM   #4
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Freewheels/cassettes come in a variety of 'sizes' in terms of teeth on the cogs. You'd get a very real difference if you swapped out the frwh/cassette to something like a 13-28. I'd suggest trying that before you make a decision regards a new crankset ($$$). You are on the right path. There are other brands of freewheels and cassettes. You don't make it clear which you have. You might want to see the IRD models. Shop around.

If you want a new derailleur, which i'm not certain you need, and you are looking at spending around $40 - you might like a new Shimano Ultegra. It's last years model - a 6500 - but there is no real difference you'll notice. And these are available for $40. Ultegra RD's are usually between $80 and $110. The Ultegra RD blows doors on the Deore. Or anything in that price range. Here's a link:

http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.a...EAR+DERAILLEUR

I run these on both of my higher-end machines. Shifts are smooth as silk.

Regards thinking of a triple crankset - one warning: They can be a real PITA getting it to work right. If you are using a friction-shifter, this maybe a good option. But an indexed system would be more problematic. Take a look:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=75

Without knowing how your present drivetrain is set up, I can't really give any tips in installation. But you'd likely need a new front-derailleur.

By the way: Shimano publishes that the Ultegra RD has a max size large gear of 27. That's garbage. People have run them with 32 in the rear - perfectly. Shimano must lose a lot of business giving out erronious numbers. I just found another example of Shimano's idiocy in this department. Best advice when it comes to Shimano's specifications - Don't Believe It.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-22-09, 05:10 PM   #5
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Freewheel.


To be honest, Im unsure what I will need, and this may be overkill. For perspective, Im a 47 year old male. I used to do some light crit racing, centuries and the STP in my 20's. I then quit riding, and could just never get back into it. Last summer after finishing six months of chemo, I began riding and commuting to work. Riding was incredibly theraputic for me, physically, mentally and emotionally. I have since signed up for Cycle Oregon a supported seven day tour. Two decent climbing days, the biggest being a 9 mile, 3000 ft or so climb. Now in my youth, I would have just ridden my race bike and not thought much about it. Now I think a bit more about such things. Lol. I was a good climber in my youth, but forty pounds later, Im questioning my abilities. I will learn more through the summer as I train and do some climbing, but I think a bit more gearing could make the tour more enjoyable.
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Old 02-22-09, 05:13 PM   #6
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By the way: Shimano publishes that the Ultegra RD has a max size large gear of 27. That's garbage. People have run them with 32 in the rear - perfectly. Shimano must lose a lot of business giving out erronious numbers. I just found another example of Shimano's idiocy in this department. Best advice when it comes to Shimano's specifications - Don't Believe It.

Ahh, good info to know. I had looked at these, but saw the 27t max and moved on. Knowing it will go higher, that changes things. I wonder if my old Shimano 105 set also can already handle a 28t cog?
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Old 02-22-09, 05:20 PM   #7
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Your old Shimano can prob handle a 30T.

When you say tour, will you be carrying much?

If it will take larger tires, I'd consider them. I'd also go for a 32 or 34T granny gear. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 02-22-09, 05:28 PM   #8
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Will be carrying nothing of note. Fully supported fun tour, total mileage 437 or so. Total elevation gain, 24k I think.

Running 28 Gatorskins at this point. I really like them. One of the freewheels I had a link to is called a mega range, 14-16-18-21-24-34. Thats why I was drawn to the Long Cage Deore, it seemed to have the capacity for such an odd beast, plus it looked like it could handle the change to a compact double later if desired.
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Old 02-22-09, 06:27 PM   #9
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For my dining & dancing pleasure, I experimented in installing a front der. (Shimano XTR FD-M961) that said it could handle 44 - 48 max teeth. I put it on an Ultegra triple crankset - 30-39-52. Fits perfectly and does the job with room to spare! Another fine example of Shimano shooting itself in the foot.

So you are catching the cycling-bug again in your 40's, eh? This is so common it's not worth mentioning. We all do. I'm 49. The second time around is great! We all quit in our 20's and came back again around 40 - 50.

There's one thing you may have overlooked: Your saddle. If you're doing a 7-day tour of Oregon, the most comfortable saddle would be in order. I run Terry Fly saddles on both my good bikes. No after-ride payback. And I forget I'm even on a saddle. I suggest you find one that fits. If you already have - Good!

Keep on thinking/studying the situation with your gearing. But do try swapping the freewheel first. It may be all you need - and a new chain to go with it.
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Old 02-22-09, 06:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers007 View Post
By the way: Shimano publishes that the Ultegra RD has a max size large gear of 27. That's garbage. People have run them with 32 in the rear - perfectly. Shimano must lose a lot of business giving out erronious numbers. I just found another example of Shimano's idiocy in this department. Best advice when it comes to Shimano's specifications - Don't Believe It.

Hope this helps.
Alright, since you seem to know better than shimano on their own gear. How about telling the class when the derailleur won't even be compatible with a cog size of 27 or even smaller? Can you tell us why the derailleur may actually handle more than it's stated capacity?

Do you even know why shimano doens't publish every single number that is required in order to determine max cog size on their rd's?
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Old 02-22-09, 06:59 PM   #11
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I'm not in the habit of responding to antagonistic remarks disguised as questions. I've read your other posts from today. I suggest that you chill.
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Old 02-22-09, 07:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by woodenidol View Post
By the way: Shimano publishes that the Ultegra RD has a max size large gear of 27. That's garbage. People have run them with 32 in the rear - perfectly.
Some people have run Ultegra derailleurs on 32 tooth cogs without a problem- you'll hear from them. You won't hear from people where it hasn't worked because they'll just say "well, it won't work because it's beyond the published capacity".

They can be made to work- if the derailleur hanger is long enough, if the chain length is right, if you play with the B-tension adjustment enough. That's a lot of "ifs".

If you want to try some parts swapping to see what works, you can bring it over. Being an old bike mechanic, I have bunches of spare parts and I'm not adverse to tearing something off one of my bikes to see what works. You can also consult Brett Flemming at the Bike Gallery on Sandy. He's a superb mechanic (check out http://www.biketoolmaker.com/), is probably more current on finagling mismatched parts to work together, and he's the head mechanic for the Cycle Oregon crew.

PM me if you want to chat.
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Old 02-22-09, 07:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by woodenidol View Post
Will be carrying nothing of note. Fully supported fun tour, total mileage 437 or so. Total elevation gain, 24k I think.

Running 28 Gatorskins at this point. I really like them. One of the freewheels I had a link to is called a mega range, 14-16-18-21-24-34. Thats why I was drawn to the Long Cage Deore, it seemed to have the capacity for such an odd beast, plus it looked like it could handle the change to a compact double later if desired.
A Deore long cage would work perfectly on a Megarange freewheel, plus a triple crank if you want to go that route in the future.

A couple friends have been visiting over the last couple days. It turns out they live on this year's CO route in Grants Pass- they recommend hydrating. September in southern Oregon and northern California is typically very hot: 09's and 100's. Day 3 looks like a day to start early: http://www.cycleoregon.com/week-ride/route/day3/
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