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Old 03-10-09, 04:00 PM   #1
kenl666
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first wheel build is 'backwards'

I just built my first wheel and discovered that I have it backwards. It is a disc wheel (front) and the disc-side spokes are angled incorrectly for the torsion force, they will push instead of pulling tighter.

Do I need to start over, or can I just un-do one side somehow?

It's not a big deal if I have to start over...

(other than that, I'm actually pretty happy with it. It's a lot truer and rounder than I thought I'd be able to do myself, but I do need to work on the dishing)

Last edited by kenl666; 03-10-09 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 03-10-09, 05:22 PM   #2
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You should have spokes leading and trailing on both sides, unless this is some cool new lacing pattern I've never seen before.
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Old 03-10-09, 07:39 PM   #3
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Maybe if you posted some pics of the setup it would help out.
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Old 03-11-09, 12:41 AM   #4
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If you mean that the right side leading spokes are heads in instead of heads out, or vice versa, it does not matter.
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Old 03-11-09, 01:52 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by kenl666 View Post
I just built my first wheel and discovered that I have it backwards. It is a disc wheel (front) and the disc-side spokes are angled incorrectly for the torsion force, they will push instead of pulling tighter.
Other than building a radial wheel, there is ALWAYS a pulling and pushing spoke pair. The only difference would be if the pulling spoke came out on the outside or inside of the hub-flange. So yea, it doesn't matter.
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Old 03-11-09, 02:02 AM   #6
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So yea, it doesn't matter.
Actually, on a disc wheel yes it does. All the braking torque is directly at the hub, so there's a lot of force on a smaller swept area for braking forces

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830621527.PDF

Just an example, it shows the difference front/rear and left/right for disc lacing.
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Old 03-11-09, 05:47 AM   #7
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Oh no my wheels aren't laced Shimano approved! What will I do?
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Old 03-11-09, 07:56 AM   #8
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Its a minor difference.

At the end of the day, you are probably more likely to destroy the wheel getting a stick stuck in the spokes or you get your wheel jammed in some rocks and fold it.
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Old 03-11-09, 07:57 AM   #9
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Though not specifically for front wheels, here is a geeked out thread on lacing rear disc wheels. I would assume it would apply to the front wheels but the right side wouldn't matter too much because there is no drive torque being applied like a rear wheel

Lacing Rear Disc Wheels
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Old 03-11-09, 08:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Other than building a radial wheel, there is ALWAYS a pulling and pushing spoke pair. The only difference would be if the pulling spoke came out on the outside or inside of the hub-flange. So yea, it doesn't matter.
The pushing spokes come out the outside of the disc-side flange, the pulling spokes (obviously) come out the inside. I forgot to mention that it's a 3-cross pattern disc front wheel. I'll get some pix tomorrow, and thanks (almost) everyone for the replies.
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Old 03-11-09, 08:41 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by CCrew View Post
Actually, on a disc wheel yes it does. All the braking torque is directly at the hub, so there's a lot of force on a smaller swept area for braking forces

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830621527.PDF

Just an example, it shows the difference front/rear and left/right for disc lacing.
Yep, that's what I'm talking about (although these are CK hubs, same thing). My front left is laced like Fig. 2 instead of Fig. 1.
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Old 03-11-09, 08:42 AM   #12
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you're going to be fine. ride your wheels, young jedi.


just make sure to tension properly
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Old 03-11-09, 08:46 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by kenl666 View Post
The pushing spokes come out the outside of the disc-side flange, the pulling spokes (obviously) come out the inside. I forgot to mention that it's a 3-cross pattern disc front wheel. I'll get some pix tomorrow, and thanks (almost) everyone for the replies.
You're fine. Ride on it to your heart's content.

I've had to lace wheels the "wrong" way many times- the offset drilling of the rim and the valve hole location forced the outside spokes to be facing backwards (so the chain would be pulled into the hub with crank tension rather than outward). But there's no evidence that this would make any difference- I try not to drop the chain from the inner cog no matter how my wheels are built. Front wheel- no problem.
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Old 03-11-09, 11:39 AM   #14
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As long as it's not radially laced, and I see it's not, you are ok.
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Old 03-11-09, 02:45 PM   #15
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I've done this one one of my first wheels and it was fine for miles and miles. I didn't realize it until my next wheel build and I took it off to look at as a sample to copy and I realized it was wrong.
you should be fine - just tension it up nice and true.
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Old 03-11-09, 06:57 PM   #16
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Yup. Just because some people read right to left doesn't make right right. Relax. It'll probably outlive Shimano.
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Old 03-12-09, 04:14 AM   #17
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You'll be fine. According to CK you've built your wheels correctly. They disagree with Shimano. And all the factory built CK wheels I've seen are laced like yours.

Chris King Instructions specify:
"The front ISO Disc should be laced 3-or-more-cross with the rotor (left) side pulling spokes (relative to braking direction) heads out/elbows in (when laced 3-cross). The final cross of the pulling spoke must be on the outside so that as braking force is applied, increased pulling spoke tension will pull the crossed spokes towards the center of the hub and away from the caliper. Lace the wheel symmetrically."

Here's a link to the CK Manual
http://chrisking.com/files/pdfs/ISOManual-11-07-A.pdf
The information I quoted is on the third page (CK refers to it as page 1).

I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way just preferences.
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Old 03-12-09, 10:26 AM   #18
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Thank you everyone for replying!
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Old 03-12-09, 11:11 PM   #19
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Just remember that "pulling" spokes under braking are aimed to the back of the bike.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:27 AM   #20
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Oh Crimminy! Can we get a picture? I'm sure it's fine.

Happy trails!
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Old 03-13-09, 06:38 AM   #21
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Just remember that "pulling" spokes under braking are aimed to the back of the bike.
I know that's true with rim brakes but wouldn't disc brakes, which apply the brakeing force at the hub, be different?
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Old 03-13-09, 09:12 AM   #22
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I know that's true with rim brakes but wouldn't disc brakes, which apply the brakeing force at the hub, be different?
On that note, a rim brake is also a disc brake, just with the disc further away from the hub...
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Old 03-13-09, 12:43 PM   #23
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On that note, a rim brake is also a disc brake, just with the disc further away from the hub...
I've heard that analogy before but I don't think that it's valid.

On a disc brake equipped bike the brakeing force is applied near the hub and all of the brakeing forces have to be transferred through the spokes to the rim and contact patch.

On a rim brake bike the brakeing effort connects the rim with the fork crown. A portion of the brakeing force is transferred through spokes but much goes around the rim to the contact patch.
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Old 03-13-09, 02:00 PM   #24
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Oh no my wheels aren't laced Shimano approved! What will I do?
Brace yourself as the sky's gonna fall. Mine is too.
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Old 03-14-09, 10:05 AM   #25
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I've heard that analogy before but I don't think that it's valid.

On a disc brake equipped bike the brakeing force is applied near the hub and all of the brakeing forces have to be transferred through the spokes to the rim and contact patch.

On a rim brake bike the brakeing effort connects the rim with the fork crown. A portion of the brakeing force is transferred through spokes but much goes around the rim to the contact patch.
I'm far from being up on my physics, but all I meant was that as far as lacing is concerned the braking forces are of the same nature/direction, albeit different in degree. At least I think that's correct...surely there's an engineer around?
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