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Thread: Worse invention

  1. #1
    Junior Member FSAS/SS/FG's Avatar
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    Worse invention

    Attention all Bike Mechanics!

    In your honest to God opinions, would you say that the worse thing to come out of japan's component giant, Shimano is their "rapid rise" derailleur (AKA Crapid rise, Rapid Demise, etc.) or their "Biopace" chain rings??

    Mechanics at our shop have quarreled over this topic for eons, and now we want others to chime in!

  2. #2
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    I loved the BioPace on my old Trek 1000, so by default I will have to answer RapidRise.
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    There is nothing wrong with bio pace and no reason for rapid rise. Guess my answer. I personally think brifters are an even worse invention. A shifter that can't be fixed on the road is worthless. Roger

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    I have a Rapid Rise derailer. Don't forget, the very first derailers were low normal AKA rapid rise.

    I got it because it was on sale, but I can't complain.

    EDIT- I actuate it with a downtube shifter.
    Surly Pacer

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    )) <> (( illwafer's Avatar
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    i have both on my miyata 1000, and i like them both. rapid rise is cool because you can shift in the same direction as your front derailleur.

  6. #6
    Reeks of aged cotton duck Hydrated's Avatar
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    I'm glad you guys hate the Rapid Rise stuff so badly... I ride an XTR low normal rear derailleur that I got from my LBS for $40 brand new in the box because they couldn't get rid of it. I think that some folks just don't like them 'cause they're different than what they're used to... but I got top of the line XTR stuff for a song and it shifts silky smooth.

    Keep on hating them RR derailleurs... makes it cheaper for me!
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  7. #7
    Gear Hub fan
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    Biopace was nothing new when introduced that I can see. Non round chainrings date back to the 1890s or so based on photos I have seen of some antique bikes. Like women's fashions they seem to come and go only to be reintroduced again. Shimano's iteration did nothing more than change the orientation of the high area in relation to the cranks and they had two versions as I recall, the earlier with greater eccentricity than the latter.

    No opinion on the derailleur as I have not tried one.
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    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I was in the bike business from 1978 through 1984. I saw a few funny things come through then. SunTour had front derailleurs that upshifted when you reduced cable tension. They weren't terrible, but they didn't have any real advantage except that if you were new to gears on a bicycle, the directions of the shifters were less confusing.

    Shimano tried some technology out on cheap bikes before the expensive bikes. They had a freewheeling bottom bracket coupled with a fixed gear cluster, so that all the freewheeling was in the crankset, not on the rear wheel. The advantage was that you could shift while coasting. It didn't catch on.

    They introduced indexed shifting on super-cheap bikes long before they did so on nice bikes. We pooh-poohed the very concept, but in retrospect, we did it only because of the bikes, not the concept.

    I know one mechanic who would probably still claim that the spring-loaded upper pivot bolt is a flawed idea. Shimano has always had it, as far as I know, and Campagnolo and SunTour didn't have it. I don't have an opinion.

    Shimano has had some screwy ideas, for sure, and they've had some brilliant ones, too.

    I think the worst thing isn't a particular design but the constant changes they make, which make repairing components difficult. I really don't believe all of this change is necessary, and it means you have to replace components when they fail. It's stuff like this that make many of us perceive Shimano as the Microsoft of the bike component business. They are the biggest company in the market, by far, and their decisions affect all the rest of the companies. Sometimes they do what's good for them in antithesis with what's good for customers.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

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  9. #9
    I ain't no newbie redirekib's Avatar
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    My winter bike...

    "Never send a monkey to do a man's job." ~ Captain Leo Davidson ~

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    Senior Member triplebutted's Avatar
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    bikeradar.com has an article last week about how a pro mountain bike rider is using the new "egg shaped" chainrings. Yes folks, the biopace is coming back.

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    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
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    I've never had occasion to work on these so-called Rapid Demise derailleurs, but now I'll look into them. Regards Biopace - I had Biopace on an old Mountain-Bike of mine. I had/have no complaints. In fact I rather liked them. One went a little further and a little faster for the same energy expenditure. This being due to their removing that dead-zone in one's pedal-stroke.
    How do you keep an idiot in suspense?

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    Junior Member FSAS/SS/FG's Avatar
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    What about accushift ???

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    hello roadfix's Avatar
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    Clipless pedals.














    j/k....
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    biked well well biked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSAS/SS/FG View Post
    What about accushift ???
    Wrong company.

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    FWIW, Sheldon Brown thought Rapid Rise was an excellent idea.

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    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
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    But does he still? I'll go get my Ouija Board.
    How do you keep an idiot in suspense?

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    Bio-pace is useless and I don't see the need for 9 or 10 rear cogs. They quietly changed the DA 10 speed rear hubs to ones with outboard bearings cause the ones with the aluminum freehub and inboard bearings was a very bad idea.

  18. #18
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSAS/SS/FG View Post
    Attention all Bike Mechanics!

    In your honest to God opinions, would you say that the worse thing to come out of japan's component giant, Shimano is their "rapid rise" derailleur (AKA Crapid rise, Rapid Demise, etc.) or their "Biopace" chain rings??

    Mechanics at our shop have quarreled over this topic for eons, and now we want others to chime in!
    Both are actually good designs that never gained mass market appeal.

    To those who say that Biopace rings are akin to oval rings needs to do some studying up.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Tapeworm21's Avatar
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    Worst thing out of Japan. Ever.
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  20. #20
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    I always liked the old Suntour front d's with their high normal position... I hate brifters for the aforementioned "break them and you're screwed" sentiment, and one might add any integrated shifter and brake that Shimano has offered because you know the shifter will wear out long before the brake and as a whole... it costs so much more to replace.

  21. #21
    Pwnerer Wordbiker's Avatar
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    Personally I feel that integrated shift/brake levers are worse than Biopace or RapidRise.

    Once the shifter wears out the whole unit has to be replaced. If the brake leverage doesn't match, the fix is ugly and kludgey. The same is true for a broken brake lever. Ya gotta keep 'em separated!

    Edit: Looks like Sixty and I agree.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Tapeworm21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post
    Personally I feel that integrated shift/brake levers are worse than Biopace or RapidRise.

    Once the shifter wears out the whole unit has to be replaced. If the brake leverage doesn't match, the fix is ugly and kludgey. The same is true for a broken brake lever. Ya gotta keep 'em separated!

    Edit: Looks like Sixty and I agree.
    You're right. Lets go back to bar end shifters and downtube shifters.
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  23. #23
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapeworm21 View Post
    You're right. Lets go back to bar end shifters and downtube shifters.
    Back ?

  24. #24
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post
    Personally I feel that integrated shift/brake levers are worse than Biopace or RapidRise.

    Once the shifter wears out the whole unit has to be replaced. If the brake leverage doesn't match, the fix is ugly and kludgey. The same is true for a broken brake lever. Ya gotta keep 'em separated!

    Edit: Looks like Sixty and I agree.
    And we're even right this time.

  25. #25
    Pwnerer Wordbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapeworm21 View Post
    You're right. Lets go back to bar end shifters and downtube shifters.
    Meh, I like trigger shifters. As long as they aren't integrated with the lever, I'm fine with them.

    Due to seeing how costly and how often brifters have to be replaced, I set my road bike up with barend shifters. They work beautifully.
    Quote Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
    Ski, bike and wish I was gay.

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