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  1. #1
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    Campagnolo Veloce 10spd cassette offset

    I have a 36h Campagnolo Veloce rear hub and I am having problems with the 10 speed cassette not sitting deep enough on the freehub body. There is a massive gap between my largest sprocket and the hub body due to a raised stopper on the splines of the freehub. This causes my cassette to "stick out" a whole sprocket width. I can still screw the lock ring on but the smallest sprocket cannot clear my drive side drop out. Do I have the wrong hub/cassette combo? My rear hub is a 2007 model and it is labeled as 9 and 10 speed compatible.

    I remember some Shimano hubs being like this where you wish you could slide the cassette just a little further in.

    Can anyone help? Thanks!

    -- Boris

  2. #2
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    If the "raised stopper" is part of the cassette body and can't be removed, there is nothing to be changed. Be sure that it's not a spacer that shouldn't be there. The length of the splines should be 36mm.

    I've owned a lot of Campy hubs since they first changed the splines in 1997 and never have a problem with a cassette not fitting. 9, 10 and 11 speed cassettes all have the same spline pattern and length.

    http://branfordbike.com/page.cfm?pageID=60

  3. #3
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    The "raised stopper" is part of the freehub - not the cassette. I took a picture of the gap between the 29t cog and the hub. See the attached picture, gap.jpg. I assembled the cassette in the order dictated by the instruction sheet. It took me a while to realize that the spacers are not the same width.

    There isn't much left of my drive side axle length after I have the cassette fully assembled onto the hub. See the attached picture, axleend.jpg.

    All of this translates to a very tight fit on the frame. See the attached picture, noroom.jpg. I tried to fit the hub in my other road bike and it was no better. Both frames have 130mm rear drop out spacing. The chain rubs against the seat stay joint.

    In my overly simplified mind, I would like to remove the "raised stoppers" on the freehub or find a cassette whose largest cogs are offset inward.

    Am I doing something wrong?

    -- Boris
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  4. #4
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    Where do I measure the splines to? Do I include the raised stopper in that length?

    -- Boris

    (P.S. I see I forgot to add a picture. I'll post it when I come home from work this evening.)

  5. #5
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
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    It would appear to me that your frame wasn't assembled with 10sp in mind...

    Your pics look normal to me...just like my setup. The difference is that my Tommasini has the seatstay lug at the dropout high and starting outside the dropout - not in line with the dropout. My final cog clears the droput by only 3mm and the chains clears by only 2mm.

    Custom framebuilders often scallop the inside of the chainstay and seatstay to insure final cog and chain clearance.

    Just because the rear is set to 130mm doesn't mean it'll work with 9sp/10sp systems.

    Show us a pic of the rear stay/dropout area - from the back and from above.

    =8-)

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    I never would have thought that the frame could not accept a 10spd cassette. Are the largest and smallest sprockets always in the same position regardless of their number? I understand that the intermediate sprockets will be in a different position due to their spacing. One thing I think I forgot to mention is that I fitted a wheel with a 10spd Shimano system into the frame and there seemed to be a lot more clearance. Then I took the Veloce hub and put it in my other road bike only to see the same effect.

    I will definitely take some more pictures this evening and post them to this thread.

    Assuming that my frame cannot accommodate a 10spd system due to the position of the dropout and stays, is there anything I can do to the frame to make room? The frame is an old steel Viner.

    -- Boris

  7. #7
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    stick washers/spacers on the axle for clearance. You'll need to do both sides so your dish doesn't get out of whack.

  8. #8
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    The spline length is from the stops at the left side. Those stops must be there, or the largest cog would hit the spokes. The freehub may have been misassembled, if it's ever been taken apart. Check the entire length of the axle, across the nuts at each end. It should be 130mm. Obviously, the lockring must not protrude as much as the nut at the end of the axle. This problem has nothing to do with your frame.

    Also check the cassette to be sure it hasn't been misassembled in some manner.

  9. #9
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
    The spline length is from the stops at the left side. Those stops must be there, or the largest cog would hit the spokes. The freehub may have been misassembled, if it's ever been taken apart. Check the entire length of the axle, across the nuts at each end. It should be 130mm. Obviously, the lockring must not protrude as much as the nut at the end of the axle. This problem has nothing to do with your frame.

    Also check the cassette to be sure it hasn't been misassembled in some manner.
    Um Dave....I have Daytona 10spd...and literally with cassette on - I have the exact same as shown in the OP original post - 1 to 1.5mm of axle end left past the last cog. (2mm at best...)

    Not all frames set to 130mm are by default 10spd ready...if the seatstays aren't flared out before joining the dropout - OR - if the seatstays and chainstays aren't scalloped adequately - you can run into the issues described by the OP.

    This is why on older 130mm frames and 126mm frames that have been cold set to 130mm...you have to do a final test - i.e., pop the cassette equipeed hub or wheel into the frame and visually check BEFORE you can claim success moving to 10spd.

    =8-)

  10. #10
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    mrrabbit...

    Looking at the picture again, I see what you mean. I'd probably add 1mm of spacer, or whatever is needed, behind the right locknut and call it good. The 13T first cog is also part of the problem, I expect.

    I've never run into a frame/chain interfence problem, even when converting an old 126mm spaced frame to 130mm. As long as it's a steel frame I just put the 130mm hub on it had no clearance problems.
    Last edited by DaveSSS; 06-18-09 at 05:03 PM.

  11. #11
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    I took some more pictures and created a collage. Hopefully the collage is easier to view than multiple individual files.

    Washers. Yes, they probably would do the trick. My only hesitation is that my hub becomes wider than my rear spacing. The hub is already sitting pretty tight. My rear spacing actually measures around 131mm to 132 mm when measured with my ruler. The hub seems to be 131mm exactly. Washers could bring this out to 133mm or even 134mm. It's worth a try and I will make a trip to Home Depot this weekend. For this experiment, I will simply put the washers on the axle ends rather than embed them into the axle. See the first attachment.

    I pushed the hub all the way back into the dropouts. You can see that the 13t cog is pretty far from the chain stay but is awfully close to the seat stay. Drape a chain around the cog and you can see hub it will rub. Then I turned the dropout screws all the way in and that pushed the hub almost halfway down the dropout. The chain almost clears the seat stay but now the cog is really close to the chain stay. There's no chance of the teeth grinding into the frame but it does make you pause and think.

    I suppose I can get longer drop out screws and push the hub even lower to the point where it would just get ready to hit the chain stay. With the quick release and drop out screws holding the hub in position, I will probably be OK. After all, if everything fails, the hub and wheel will go up into the drop out and the chain would be rubbing against the seat stay. However, I don't know how this will affect my tire clearance. All I have now is hub. I haven't built my wheel with it just yet.

    DaveSSS is right in that the 13t cog is probably too big to be in that position. Could I build up my own hybrid mix cassette? Suppose I go 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26-29? Is there a way to mix and match Campy cassette sprockets? Has anyone done it?

    It may sound desperate but is there anything a competent frame builder can do to the frame to accommodate the cassette?

    -- Boris
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  12. #12
    Senior Member mrrabbit's Avatar
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    Yep, your problem is not the hub, freehub or cassette at all. It is entirely a problem with the frame. Your seatstays and chainstays are linear / inline with the dropouts - i.e., they do not flare out before joining the dropouts - nor are they scalloped along the insides. These are old style entry level dropouts common with mass produced entry level road bikes from the eighties and early nineties. They'll work fine with 7sp, 8sp and possibly 9sp...but 10spd is really pushing it - especially with Campagnolo as they take a little more liberty with using up drive side axle end space for the cog set.

    Adding 1mm washers on each side MIGHT help...just make sure you have at least 3-4mm of axle in each droput when done.

    =8-)

    Good Luck!


    =8-)

  13. #13
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    yup like mrrabbit said, its your frame. I've got a campy hub/cassette as well and its the same.

  14. #14
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    About mixing cogs. I once took the 12-15 from a 12-25 and the 17-29 from a 13-29 and put them together, to gain the 12 and lose the 16T, but the 15-17 shift was not good at all.

  15. #15
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    I'm going to go back to the garage this weekend and try a few more experiments. The one thing I didn't photograph is how a 12-27 Shimano 10spd system fits in Viner and how the Campy hub fits in my Pedal Force road bike. Maybe those shots will provide some more clues.

    DaveSSS, regarding the shifting between the 15t to 17t cogs in your hybrid cassette, how bad was the shift? Was it any worse than a 4t jump between a 24t and 28t cog in the old 6spd freewheels we used to ride on? Or, was the chain clicking and clattering for ages before settling (if at all)?

    -- Boris

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