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Old 06-18-09, 01:19 PM   #1
exRunner
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Changing from a Compact to a Standard

I have 2 bikes, one with a 53/39 and one with a 50/34. The 50/34 was an experiment that I have decided to terminate.

The bike is a 2009 Speciallized Allez Sport with 105 everything (mostly).

Is changing this to a 53/39 as simple as:

Changing the chain rings. (I have new 105 rings in the correct size)
Adjusting the front derailer height.
Resetting the high/low stops (maybe if necessary)

Going for a ride?

Or is the chain (which only has about 200 miles on it) going be too short?

Is there any other surprises?
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Old 06-18-09, 01:21 PM   #2
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Chain needs to be long enough to cover the necessary gears and is nearly impossible to tell online. Common standard is to cover the extreme large cross chain gearing (large ring - large cog).

And you have to make sure your BCDs are correct to do the ring swap.
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Old 06-18-09, 01:33 PM   #3
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I have not taken it apart yet, but online it looked like there was only one BCD for 105 double - 130mm - Which is what I bought.

As for the chain, are you telling me that as long as I have the chain on the 2 biggest gears and there is still tensioner movement I am OK?
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Old 06-18-09, 01:50 PM   #4
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you will have some rear derailleur adjustment, but you may get away with the same length chain, or you may have to add a link or two. When I went from 'standard' to a compact, I did have to nix a link (or was it two? I don't 'member)
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Old 06-18-09, 02:16 PM   #5
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I have not taken it apart yet, but online it looked like there was only one BCD for 105 double - 130mm - Which is what I bought.
There are standard doubles and compact doubles. Standards use 130mm BCD and compacts used 110mm BCD. Post in the "For Trade Thread" in the road forum and I'm sure you'll find someone more than willing to take your compact crank in exchange for their standard 105 double.

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As for the chain, are you telling me that as long as I have the chain on the 2 biggest gears and there is still tensioner movement I am OK?
The standard method for big/big sizing is to wrap the chain around your largest chainring and largest cog then add one inch above the smallest chain size that could be joined (meaning sometimes you have an extra 1.5 inches). You could probably get away with not adding the extra inch but assuming you are running a standard crank/cassette/rear derailler combo, there's no need to risk your frame/drivetrain by going smaller.
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Old 06-18-09, 02:18 PM   #6
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you will have some rear derailleur adjustment, but you may get away with the same length chain, or you may have to add a link or two. When I went from 'standard' to a compact, I did have to nix a link (or was it two? I don't 'member)
You shouldn't need to touch the rear derailler after a crank change.

Going from a standard to a compact can be done without resizing the chain assuming it was sized using the big/big method (and not small/small) originally and the derailler has enough wrap capacity to handle the extra chain. If a chain was sized using big/big for a compact crank, it will definitely need to be lengthened for use with a standard double crank.
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Old 06-18-09, 02:25 PM   #7
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Thanks for all the input. I am now curious why the site I bought from:

http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-2...hainrings.aspx

Shows all the doubles at 130, 110 is not listed as an option.

I guess I will just take it apart and look for myself tonight.
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Old 06-18-09, 02:33 PM   #8
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Your confusion is stemming from a lack of complete information on that website plus a slightly strange naming system by Shimano.

First, on the website, notice the lack of 34 and 50 tooth chainrings. The good news is that you now have an extra set of chainrings for your 105 double.

Second, Shimano calls their 105-level compact crank an R600: http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...4&category=526

You won't find it listed as a 105 compact anywhere except for possibly in the literature about your bike.
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Old 06-18-09, 02:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exRunner View Post
Thanks for all the input. I am now curious why the site I bought from:

http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-2...hainrings.aspx

Shows all the doubles at 130, 110 is not listed as an option.

I guess I will just take it apart and look for myself tonight.

Sorry to say, but all Shimano compact doubles end in xx50, like 4550,5650, 6550 etc. The rings listed end in xx00, which is their standard double cranks. . 4500, 5600, 6500 etc. The R600/R700 are stand alone non-series cranks that use the same xx50 series rings. You just bought rings for the standard double cranks.

Shimano does not make a 39 and 53 for a 110 BCD. Isn't that nice to know?

You do have 110 bcd options though, off the top of my head ..... TA, Sugino, Vuelta. TA's are pinned and all that, and are the best. Sugino and Vuelta are old school non pinned/ramped rings. . . as if it makes a difference
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Old 06-18-09, 03:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Your confusion is stemming from a lack of complete information on that website plus a slightly strange naming system by Shimano.

First, on the website, notice the lack of 34 and 50 tooth chainrings. The good news is that you now have an extra set of chainrings for your 105 double.

Second, Shimano calls their 105-level compact crank an R600: http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...4&category=526

You won't find it listed as a 105 compact anywhere except for possibly in the literature about your bike.


On Shimano USA website they do list the 105 and Ultegra Compacts with the Tech Docs.http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830646789.pdf

I even found 105 and Ultegra compacts for sale, believe it or not!
http://bicyclesportshop.com/itemdetails.cfm?LibId=43086
http://bicyclesportshop.com/itemdetails.cfm?LibId=43271
http://www.artscyclery.com/descpage-SH665CS.html

Shimano's system is really f'd up though. They seem to make redundant cranks. You're right joejack951, it's very confusing.
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Old 06-18-09, 03:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Garthr View Post
On Shimano USA website they do list the 105 and Ultegra Compacts with the Tech Docs.http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830646789.pdf

I even found 105 and Ultegra compacts for sale, believe it or not!
http://bicyclesportshop.com/itemdetails.cfm?LibId=43086
http://bicyclesportshop.com/itemdetails.cfm?LibId=43271
http://www.artscyclery.com/descpage-SH665CS.html

Shimano's system is really f'd up though. They seem to make redundant cranks. You're right joejack951, it's very confusing.
I'm f'ed up apparently. I managed to forget that Shimano has updated their crankset naming with the advent of 10 speed 105 and Ultegra SL. Prior to that, they used the RX00 system with typcially no mention of the corresponding "level" (Tiagra/105/Ultegra). The "R" numbers are still there but as you've pointed out, they refer to the groupset name and even put it on the crankset now.
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Old 06-18-09, 03:27 PM   #12
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It is pouring down rain right now, just like it has off and on for 3 weeks, so the bikes are both upside down in my dinning room and everyone is right - the Tarmac has 130 BCD and the Allez has 110. I now have an extra set of chainrings for the Tarmac.

I should have compared them before I ordered.

If this weather keeps up I will have lots of time to find the right rings, order them, and install them.

Again, thanks for the help.
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Old 06-18-09, 03:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
I'm f'ed up apparently. I managed to forget that Shimano has updated their crankset naming with the advent of 10 speed 105 and Ultegra SL. Prior to that, they used the RX00 system with typcially no mention of the corresponding "level" (Tiagra/105/Ultegra). The "R" numbers are still there but as you've pointed out, they refer to the groupset name and even put it on the crankset now.
This is where it really is confusing though,and you're not f'd up ..... because the do STILL have the R600 and R700. They're listed in the tech docs under "non-series" components. So . . . how many compact cranks do they need? Lets see, DA, Ultegra,105,Tiagra, Sora and the R600 and R700. Seven compacts! . . . all different to minute degrees

They should make it a bit easier to find the rings though.

No worries exRunner, there's lots of rings out there in 110.

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