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Old 07-07-09, 08:47 PM   #1
pkarandi
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Does my bicycle have hook beaded rims?

I am trying to put road-style tires on my wife's mountain bike. I bought a couple of Geax Streatrunner tires (26 x 1.6). Today I tried to install the first tire on the front rim, and just could not get the tire bead to sit correctly. That little line that you can use to make sure the tire is seated evenly all the way around was always dipping under the rim at a certain point.

When installing the tire, I placed the first bead around the rim, then inflated a new tube just enough to hold its shape, put the tube on the rim, and then pushed the second bead of the tire around the rim. I then inflated the tube to about 20 psi and bounced it on the floor, all the way around. I understand this step is what sets the tire bead on the rim correctly. I even tried pushing the tire back and forth on the rim while it was inflated between 20 and 30 psi, but nothing I did would set the tire right. Just to see, I installed the wheel/tire on the bike and spun it around, and it became really evident how lopsided the tire was mounted.

I then realized the new tires (Geax Streetrunners) had the words "Use only on hook beaded rims" imprinted on the side. I never noticed this before. Could this be why I am having this problem? Do I (actually, my wife) even have hook beaded rims? The bike is a pretty cheap 2007 Schwinn Frontier, and although I do have the specs on the bike, they don't state info on the rims. The specs state:

Wheelset: Rims: Alloy ATB; Hubs: Sealed mechanism Alloy w/ QR with thread-on rear
Tires: Schwinn Frontier ATB w/ smooth rolling, center tread, 26" x 1.95"

Below are some pics of the rim. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!


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Old 07-07-09, 08:56 PM   #2
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Yes. You have hook bead rims. Compare a rim that takes tubular tires (they are glued to the rim).



I don't know what is causing the problem, but it isn't the rim shape. Maybe the tube is getting bunched up in the tire?
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Old 07-07-09, 09:04 PM   #3
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you want less psi when seating the tire... start at less than 5psi and work from there.
20~30psi means you have to work against 20~30lbs of pressure, the wheel doesn't weight that much and it's hard to get a proper grip around a rim and tire.
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Old 07-07-09, 09:26 PM   #4
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Thanks for the feedback caloso and AEO.

Caloso, thanks for providing a pic to explain the difference. That really helps.

AEO, I will try lowering the psi when seating the tire. I noticed some advice you gave the guy with the Mavic Aksium wheels - you mentioned to inflate the tire to about 20 psi over max psi rating to see if it "pops" the tire out. Is that something I can try too? Or is that more of a road-bike thing?
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Old 07-07-09, 09:28 PM   #5
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that wasn't me.

you can try that too, but it's usually for when the tire sidewall is caught on the hook.
when the bead is showing, it might pop the tube when you overinflate it.

usually it's easier to seat a fatter tire than a narrow one.
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Old 07-07-09, 09:40 PM   #6
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Older clincher rims are not hook beaded. Posting a picture of a tubular rim does not illustrate this.
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Old 07-07-09, 09:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
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that wasn't me.
Oh - right - sorry. Your post was right before the post from rs1101 that advised overinflating...
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Old 07-07-09, 11:25 PM   #8
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Older clincher rims are not hook beaded. Posting a picture of a tubular rim does not illustrate this.
Correct.

But the OP still has hook bead rims. The difference is a non-hook clincher has a straight wall while a hook bead has... well... a hook on the inside. Really just a bump or lip, but you get the idea.
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Old 07-08-09, 01:58 AM   #9
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30 psi can be too high to hand seat. try using some simple green or diluted dish soap or something slick and non corrosive on the bead first. also make sure the valve stem is pushed inwards when inflating, tube can bunch up there. inflate to high recomended level. if you try overinflating, make sure none of the bead is too high, its helpful (assuming schrader) to have a set of keys handy in case tire starts to slip off. even the least expensive tires should be able to hold 50-60 psi, i do it all the time haha
*edit: i did notice youre using a 1.6 tire on a mtb rim.. thats always going to be hard to seat, its a wide rim for the tire relatively

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Old 07-08-09, 06:31 AM   #10
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When using diluted dish soap, do you just put some soap on your finger and spread it on both tire bead sides before placing it on the rim? (Sorry for the newb question, but I want to make sure I do it right).
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Old 07-08-09, 07:04 AM   #11
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Could someone post pictures of a non hook beaded rim for comparison?
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Old 07-08-09, 07:27 AM   #12
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I don't know if people that old use the internet
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Old 07-08-09, 08:08 AM   #13
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Just soapy water the bead. The only reason it doesn't seat properly (re:low in spots) is because of friction. For really *really* aggravating tyres i've used triflow as well. Unless you have the tool or a stand to clamp the tyre in, your fastest and quickest way is the one I outlined above.

Unless the wheel is non-original to the bike, it most definitley is not a tubular rim.
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Old 07-08-09, 05:04 PM   #14
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I think that all mountain bikes have hook beaded rims. Straight sided rims went out before mountain bikes came in.

operator doesn't get it because straight sided rims went out before he was born.

I've got some straight sided rims, but i just don't feel like dismounting a tire just to post a picture.
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Old 07-08-09, 05:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdrop View Post
I think that all mountain bikes have hook beaded rims. Straight sided rims went out before mountain bikes came in.

operator doesn't get it because straight sided rims went out before he was born.

I've got some straight sided rims, but i just don't feel like dismounting a tire just to post a picture.
C'mon! A pic is needed.
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Old 07-08-09, 09:58 PM   #16
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Good to know that my new tires were meant to be installed on those types of rims (although I realize the tires are a little narrow for typical mountain bike rims). Anyway, I got them installed this evening. I spread a little dish soap on the bead, and bounced the wheel with only 5-10 psi in the tube. The problem still persisted, but then I inflated the tire to about 95 psi (~20 psi over the max). That did the trick! I then lowered the psi to about 65 and installed the wheel back on the bike. My wife and I rode about 7 miles this evening and she really liked her new road tires.

Thanks for all the help everyone.
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Old 07-09-09, 01:19 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdrop View Post
I think that all mountain bikes have hook beaded rims. Straight sided rims went out before mountain bikes came in.

operator doesn't get it because straight sided rims went out before he was born.

I've got some straight sided rims, but i just don't feel like dismounting a tire just to post a picture.
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Old 07-09-09, 02:03 AM   #18
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Perhaps I can post a picture of this darned Schwinn Varsity I'm trying to get back on the road. It's been full of painful surprises. The rear rim lets tires blow off. It's not hooked bead. I put on a brand new Panasonic Pasela tire. It blew off quite violently, so of course, it destroyed the tube quite dramatically. Is this tire incompatible? If so, what tire is compatible?
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Old 07-09-09, 07:00 AM   #19
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Sometimes, my tires wouldn't seat until I pumped up to full pressure, then reached over the top of the tire and pulled back to pull up the low spot.

Non-hooked rims are old. The inside edge just goes straight up and down, no bead.
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Old 07-09-09, 08:24 AM   #20
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I have used cheap Chen Sin (sp?) wire bead tires on Varsities. They work OK. I get almost all of my tires from Niagara Cycle.

I had a folding tire blow off an old unhooked rim. That was an experience I would not want to repeat.
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