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  1. #1
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    J. P. Weigle Framesaver: Should I worry about toxicity after it has dried up?

    I place great emphasis on health safety & quality for products that I use for hours on a daily basis - like my bicycle. Something so close to my body for hours every day should be very safe (and preferably green).

    1. Exactly what are the final elements of Weigle's FrameSaver? A forum search gave some bickering about linseed oil. I don't have the product in front of me nor do I see specific details about it on the internet.

    3. Should I worry about the toxicity of this product AFTER it has dried or after water contacts it during rain?

    4. Is it true that once you apply this puppy you can go on for years without having to do it?

    5. My fork is steel (hence the Weigle) but my frame is aluminum. Aluminum does not rust but it can corrode. Since my LBS is offering to spray the frame too (which is a task I don't want to do), I think I'll get the aluminum done anyway. I know FrameSaver is designed for steel primarily but is it effective for aluminum too?

    Boeshield is touted as a less toxic alternative but I understand Boeshield needs to be re-applied every 6 months. I will see my LBS tomorrow who has offered to spray the Weigle in the frames & fork without charge save for the Weigle can itself.

    Thank you all for your time and patience.
    Last edited by common man; 07-13-09 at 09:54 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    I can't imagine it would harm you unless you plan on licking the inside of the tubes of your fork.

    As for the aluminum frame, there is absolutely no reason to use Frame Saver on it.

  3. #3
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziemas View Post
    as for the aluminum frame, there is absolutely no reason to use frame saver on it.
    +1
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  4. #4
    Senior Member peripatetic's Avatar
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    If you don't smell it and it's not dripping out after it's dried--and you're not touching/licking it--I can't see it being very toxic to you.

    I'm confused as to why the LBS would even offer to put it inside an aluminum frame.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
    I can't imagine it would harm you unless you plan on licking the inside of the tubes of your fork.

    As for the aluminum frame, there is absolutely no reason to use Frame Saver on it.
    I have to pay for the entire can of Weigle's. I will be applying it for only one bike and even then just the fork. I'll be left with a lot of Weigle's that I won't know what to do with. Any idea?

    I understand that aluminum does not rust but it can corrode (and get chalky white). I'm hoping to give it extra protection from water, mud, and even salt (during winters in Pennsylvania). Isn't this a valid concern that perhaps FrameSaver can pacify? Thanks for your fast reply.

  6. #6
    Senior Member peripatetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by common man View Post
    I have to pay for the entire can of Weigle's. I will be applying it for only one bike and even then just the fork. I'll be left with a lot of Weigle's that I won't know what to do with. Any idea?
    PM me if you're looking for small parts or something else I might try . Or post this on one of the classified threads (I'd suggest the C & V ISO/WTB thread--everyone there is devoted to steel). It won't go to waste.

    Quote Originally Posted by common man View Post
    I understand that aluminum does not rust but it can corrode (and get chalky white). I'm hoping to give it extra protection from water, mud, and even salt (during winters in Pennsylvania). Isn't this a valid concern that perhaps FrameSaver can pacify? Thanks for your fast reply.
    I'm not sure, but I think this usually happens most when the aluminum is heavily exposed to salt/water and air. I think the inside of your frame isn't going to be that much of a concern. It's also not a horrible think to have a small amount of oxidation, as it creates a bit of a protective layer. I don't think you're going to have your frame get all nasty and pitted if you don't spray framesaver inside--I've seen plenty of aluminum frames that look fairly pristine on the inside, even after years. Just seems like a lot of trouble for very little.

  7. #7
    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
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    If you could supply me with the names of the chemicals that's in this stuff - then I could tell you if there is any need for concern. Without this information, you might as well look for the answer using a deck of Tarot-Cards.
    How do you keep an idiot in suspense?

  8. #8
    Real Men Ride Ordinaries fuzz2050's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by common man View Post
    3. Should I worry about the toxicity of this product AFTER it has dried or after water contacts it during rain?
    Only because dried Frame-Saver chips are delicious. They taste kinda like lead based paint, only without all that grit.

  9. #9
    Senior Member JonathanGennick's Avatar
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    There's an email address on the can. Maybe send an email to the company and ask for the material safety data sheet.

  10. #10
    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    There's an email address on the can. Maybe send an email to the company and ask for the material safety data sheet.
    +2

    If we can get a chemical analysis through a MSDS, I can likely figure out what it may become down the road. Whatever it is, I'm sure Kalifornia has declared it to be carcinogenic and would lock you up with Charlie Manson if you poured it down your sink.
    How do you keep an idiot in suspense?

  11. #11
    curmudgeon psirue's Avatar
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    zinn recommends framesaver even for Al frames.

    framesaver is toxic, but I doubt you'd be touching the chemicals since they wouldnt leech through the steel.

  12. #12
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    Thank you all for your helpful responses. I dropped off my bike yesterday and asked for the steel fork only. They said they'd spray it straightdown the fork. I'm hoping they use a pipe on the Aerosol can and spray it in the vent holes for the inside of each side fork and not just the center of the fork. Then drain the excess. I didn't want to give them too many instructions or be cumbersome. Whatever they do - I'll just have to be happy with. As soon as I get the bike back I'm committed to biking with some friends so I won't be able to apply the the Weigle into the vent holes myself. Meh - so what if the side steel forks rust on the inside. Hopefully it'll be 20 years before any rust damages the integrity of the bicycle. Sometimes I ride over deep puddles and the splash can get water to spin on the wheels and into the forks.

  13. #13
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    I think you are badly overanalyzing this. The active ingredients in Frame Saver (and it's commercial twin Amsoil HDMP) are waxes containing rust inhibitors. They are packaged as a solution in light petroleum fractions and propellants (butane, propane, heptane, etc.) that make a thin, sprayable liguid for application and then evaporate leaving the inhibited wax film on the tube's interior.

    The stuff is highly flammable as applied but dries to a non-volatile film. Spray it outdoors so you have good ventilation and, obviously, don't smoke around it or have an open flame. Let the frame dry in a well ventillated area and then reassemble the bike. Once it's dry and, certainly inside the tubes, it's harmless.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Nessism's Avatar
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    Over analyzing is right. And regarding spraying the fork, unless there are two large vent holes the spray won't get inside. No worry though, it's not normal to spray the fork anyway.
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  15. #15
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    You're being overly concerned. A periodic application in a well ventilated area won't give you enough exposure to worry about. You do want the insides of the blades protected by putting some through the vent holes, which hopefully the shop will have done. Afterwards you won't be exposed to the non-volitile chemicals inside the tubes.

    As others have said, the aluminum frame doesn't need anything, but if you're doing all weather riding be aware that the seatpost/seat tube area is an entry point for water, which runs down into the bottom bracket area. Ideally there's weep (drain) hole down there, otherwise you might periodically remove the cable guide screw, if any to open it to the air. BB water is a major cause of BB becoming frozen in frames. You can also reduce water entry by putting a dollup of thick waterproof grease into the seat tube slot and making a small fillet of it where the post meets the frame.
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  16. #16
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    a very big thank you to all of you. i really appreciate the fast, detailed, helpful feedback.

    everything is good now. i'm not concerned about safety and i'm sure my lbs has done everything needed. my bike will be ready friday and then i'll just ride on!

  17. #17
    you guys ridin'? MTBaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panthers007 View Post
    If you could supply me with the names of the chemicals that's in this stuff - then I could tell you if there is any need for concern. Without this information, you might as well look for the answer using a deck of Tarot-Cards.
    I've have been looking for that information as well but have been unable to find it. Also, you might know of a company known as Ziebart that applies an after-market undercoating to automobiles, including the inside of door panels, etc. The company still exists although mostly in the rust-belt states (just saw one in Ohio). It was very popular years ago before the auto industry changed over to more corrosion resistant (coated) steels.

    The JP Weigle material has a scent just like the Ziebart material and JP may have gotten the idea there; however, mostly what you would smell is the vehicle that is used to hold the "active" ingredients in suspension/solution and act as a carrier to deliver them. BTW, I cannot find any info on the composition of Ziebart either.

    I see there is a "new" product on the market by ProGold, their Steel Frame Saver. I have been looking for a review of this product to see whether I should consider it for my next build. They do make their MSDS sheet available and, it appears that the corrosion inhibitor is calcium alkyl naphthalene sulfonate.

    Naphthalene calcium sulfate is a kind of oil soluble antirust additive, which is extensively applied in antirust oils. Compared with other same kind products, naphthalene calcium sulfate evidently has less toxicity and side effects.

    Has anyone found data on the composition of JP Wiegle's product or Ziebart?
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  18. #18
    Not quite there yet Matariki's Avatar
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    If you are worried about using the chemical, consider foregoing the treatment altogether. I imagine the stuff does something to protect, but unless you are riding in a corrosive environment, I am not sure it is much of an advantage. I'll admit to not having any real insight other than my own experience, which is that I have never treated and have not seen any issues on any of my bikes. My daily all-weather commuter is now 44 years old.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member rekmeyata's Avatar
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    I accidently touched that stuff after it dried up inside one of my frames and my index finger fell right off after sizzling for about 10 seconds.

    While it is toxic it's only toxic when being applied so you need to wear nitrile gloves and apply it outside and downwind from your face, a breathing mask would be a great precaution. Also it can stain clothes and the stain will be permanent. If you do this yourself here is how it's done: Bike Sherpas Touring Co.: An Upgraded Procedure for Preventing Rust in Steel Frames with J.P. Weigle's Framesaver

    Not sure how long this stuff lasts, the only bike I ever had that done to was my Mercian and it was done by the factory, my understanding was that the treatment lasts forever. Even if it doesn't I don't really care because I have a lot of steel bikes that are older than the Mercian and none of those are rusting. All I ever did to my other steel bikes was to lightly grease the seatpost and seat tube, grease the water bottle cage bolts, and on my main steel bike that I rode for over 160,000 miles I put on a Lizard Skin headset seal to keep water out.
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