zacster

I'm swapping BB and cranks, taking the old Zeus off my Davidson and putting on a Chorus 10sp, more because I have it than any other reason. The Zeus is getting pitted, the 53/39 is better suited to me than the 52/42, and I use a 10speed chain (not that I have any problems from that), but I doubt it will make me a better rider.

Anyway, I've removed the BB from the cracked frame it was on now that I have the proper Campy tool, I loosened the lockring on the Zeus with a tool I bought 25 years ago but never used, but I realized I don't have a wrench that fits the fixed cup. What size wrench will I need? The Zeus is a Campy copy from the early 80s so it should be pretty standard. Will it come off easily? So far I haven't had any problems with removing these, but I was told to NEVER touch the fixed cup. But of course if I'm replacing the BB I have to. Since this is drive side it will be reverse threaded, this much I do know. (English, I checked.) Any advice if I have trouble? Or should I just bring it to a shop and have them do it and save myself some grief and skinned knuckles? (only to remove it, I'll install myself.)

Retro Grouch 

That's almost surely NOT going to come out easily.

You need a tool that fits closely on the flats of the fixed cup, something to hold the tool in place, and something to make a lot of torque.

Good luck.

HillRider

If the fixed cup has the "standard" flats that match a fixed cup wrench and they are accessable, one work-around is to firmly clamp the cup flats into a bench vise and use the frame itself as the lever to spin the cup out. Remember which way to turn the frame.

As RG noted the cup is not going to be easy to remove after all of this time so a spray of penetrating oil is probably a good beginning.

Mondoman

I had good luck using Sheldon Brown's make-it-yourself $5 tool (near the bottom of this page: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html )

brooklyn_bike

i just took the fixed cup out of a 70s zeus bike i recently bought. BTW mine was italian threaded (right tight / left loose) it was in there pretty damn tight. i ended up using two C-Clamps to hold my park headset wrench tight against the cup. i threaded the long clamp stems through the other side of the bottom bracket shell after removing the adjustable cup and tightened them down on the edges of the wrench. it kept the wrench from slipping off enough for me to put some body weight down and off it came. i would have gone to the hardware store to do sheldon brown's tool idea but it was late at night and i gave it a shot and it worked. here's the tool i used that fit the flats on the fixed cup.

https://www.parktool.com/products/det...1&item=HCW%2D9

zacster

Sheldon Brown's idea sounds like a good one and cheap and easy. I don't want to buy a tool that I won't ever use again, especially since I never used the tools I have. I have a bench with an old wood vice that would never be able to grip, although I used it to clamp the Campy tool in to remove the Campy cups from the other frame.

All I have to do now is find my crank bolt tool. I used it not too long ago to examine all these parts but I just can't find it. You can't remove the BB with the cranks still on it.

ldmataya 

I've had more luck with Sheldon's solution even than with a vise. I think its because I can get more leverage with a standard breaker bar and the frame sitting upright on my foam padded shop floor. Using a vice always has the risk of slipping and/or grinding the flats.

fencerchica

I used this wrench to remove the fixed cup from an '82 Shogun with no particular trouble:

https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._200309_200497

zacster

I've been looking for a replacement crank bolt wrench and can't seem to find it. It is a 16mm bolt and supposedly a standard socket won't fit inside the crank arm hole and only this tool will work. This was a particular problem with the Zeus cranks, and I recall the shop guy saying I'd need to buy it since the bolts need to be tightened from time to time. I've had it ever since, almost 25 years, and yes I've used it over the years, but I never even tried a socket wrench. Of course my socket set goes from 15 to 17, no 16. Maybe a trip to Lowes or HD is in the works for the parts to Sheldon's remover, and a 16mm socket.

noglider 

You should be able to replace the bolts with bolts that have 15mm heads. Then you can use a standard socket.

It is decidedly not true that the bolts need periodic tightening. (Oy, so much folklore!) Yes, they get loose, but you shouldn't tighten them. The crankarm is working its way onto the spindle. If you tighten, you will widen the square hole and damage the crankarm. There should be a Sheldon Brown or Jobst Brandt article explaining this.

JohnDThompson 

You may still have to grind some material off the socket to make it thin enough to fit. I have a Craftsman socket that is too wide. Fortunately, I also have the proper "peanut butter wrench" to fit (Park CCW-16; no longer in production):



You're welcome to borrow it for the cost of postage to & from, and if you're interesting in selling/trading the cranks & BB let know as well.

PM if you're interested.

zacster

I found the tool!! It was between two boxes of stuff unrelated to cycling in my basement. My wrench was actually made by Zeus in Spain.

As for tightening the bolt, yes you do need to tighten every now and then. The bolts come loose, the crank starts to wobble. A wobble will do far more damage than tightening it. I've been doing it for 28 years on this crank without any problem.

zacster

I tried using the Sheldon Brown tool and I can't get the fixed cup to budge. I'm using a 12mm bolt, which is about 1/2" as all my tools are metric, and a large pipe wrench, but it just doesn't move. What else should I try?

JohnDThompson 

The Zeus fixed cup is identical to the Campy, so any shop with a Campy tool kit can use one these to remove it:

zacster

Thanks. I gave up on removing it for the moment so I cleaned it up and put it all back together and it is pretty smooth for 28 years old. I also put the Chorus crank on the old BB and it went on fine. Somewhat related though is the crank arm is closer to the front derailleur, which was also new for the bike. It rubbed against it as I pedaled. I've adjusted it so it works now, except that the derailleur cable was original and was fraying at the BB, and then I also noticed one of my chain links was coming undone. This either caused the old derailleur to break, or was broken in the process.

Mondoman

zac, you did use a good penetrating oil like PB Blaster or Kroil on the fixed cup, inside and out, right?

noglider 

If your cranks wobble from not tightening periodically, it's because you tightened periodically without needing to, thus widening the square hole. Fine for you, but I would advise others not to tighten periodically.

zacster

Actually, I didn't. Maybe that would have made it easier? Too late in any case.

I took the bike on a longer ride today and I was amazed at how smooth and quiet it is now. The Chorus crank with the narrower 10 speed chainrings made a big difference. The front shifts much better now, even with the fraying cable.


Say what you want about tightening the crank, but when the bolt comes loose, you tighten it. I also have an FSA SLK crank on my other bike and that crank bolt is notorious for coming loose. I always keep an 8mm hex wrench with me because of it.

noglider 

No, I don't.

If you want to be meticulous, I suggest measuring the crankarm's progress along the spindle. If it hasn't moved outward, don't tighten the bolt.

steve-d

Here is an inexpensive method I use to remove the fixed cup, but it does require the proper tool. But using the proper tool makes the job easier and safer.

Recommend using the Park fixed cup removal tool. Not expensive.

Secure it in place with a bolt, nut and a couple of washers.

**First remove the adjustable cup and ring. Remove the spindle. Loosly spin on the adjustable cup.

**Insert the bolt and washer thru the adjustable cup and through the fixed cup.

**Place the park tool onto the fixed cup and then use a large washer and nut to hold the wrench securely in place onto the flats of the fixed cup.

**Wack the wrench in the proper direction with the palm of your hand. Don't go more than a quarter turn. If you are going clockwise (English) you're likely tightening the nut onto the bolt and you don't want it too tight. If you are going counter clockwise (Italian) you're likely loosening the nut and the wrench may lift off the flats.

Works for me every time and never rounded the two flats.

Steve

conspiratemus

^^ I use the same general method of securing the fixed cup tool so it can't jump off the flats, but I find sometimes more than a whack with the palm of the hand is necessary. Foot pressure on the wrench (with the bike on the floor resting on inflated tires, not in a stand), sometimes a few carefully aimed blows with a plastic-headed mallet if it's really recalcitrant. For anything involving impact you have to be really sure that you've got the wrench well-secured. If it can jump off, it will. Then as soon as it breaks loose, take apart your clamping apparatus (so the cup doesn't strip any threads as it rises out of the shell) and remove the cup the rest of the way by hand.

Edit: another hint. For the "large washer" I use instead a large flat headset wrench that came with a hole drilled in it in a convenient place (for hanging on the wall I guess.) This is lots big to cover the fixed-cup tool and keep it firmly applied against the flats of cup.

MadBuddha1

I used a headset wrench and about 4 feet of steel pipe and some muscle to remove the fixed cup off my 1980 Fuji, leverage baby

Deanster04

Take it to a good old school LBS and pay them to remove the old fixed cup. I removed one from my 1969 Cinelli to put in a Phil Wood and it took 3 men and a boy with a very long pipe extension to remove the thing. Don't try the standard spanner or you will hurt your self...trust me.

14mph

I had a similar fixed cup which was tough to shift. LBS also failed with all the toolery and experience at their disposal.

How I finally did it was by removing the rest of the BB, putting a hacksaw inside and making two close parallel cuts from the centre. I got a heavy chisel and hammer, knocked out the metal between the two cuts and then used the gap to get the purchase necessary to unscrew the cup, again with said chisel and hammer. Not forgetting that the cup has a left-hand thread, of course.

steve-d

My hat is off to you for the obvious hard and detailed work in cutting off the wedge in the cup.

I'd suggest, if it is a frame worth keeping, to have the threads chased and most importantly to have the bb faced. An uneven bb, even slightly, can result is such probs over a long period.

S