Spreading Composite Frame 126mm to 130mm... bad idea?
05-15-10, 02:40 PM
#1
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Spreading Composite Frame 126mm to 130mm... bad idea?
I have a Trek 2100. I think it's a 1993 but I forget the exact year. The frame is composite. The frame spacing is 126mm in rear. I have a rear wheel with a modern 130mm spacing. I am considering putting it on the bike.
I've looked at Sheldon Brown's Frame Spacing page but I'm still confused. At one point he seems to say that spreading from 126 to 130 is no big deal (1st quote below). However he goes on to say that composite frames should never be spread (2nd quote below). But I think the 2nd quote may be related to spreading frames by more than one size increment (e.g. 126 to 135) and/or cold setting.
Can a composite frame be safely spread from 126 to 130?
Note 1: I'm not talking about permanently spreading it (i.e. cold setting) just temporarily "springing" the frame apart as Sheldon describes below.
Note 2: I know it can be done. The key word is safely. I quite like the frame and don't want to risk damage to it.
I've looked at Sheldon Brown's Frame Spacing page but I'm still confused. At one point he seems to say that spreading from 126 to 130 is no big deal (1st quote below). However he goes on to say that composite frames should never be spread (2nd quote below). But I think the 2nd quote may be related to spreading frames by more than one size increment (e.g. 126 to 135) and/or cold setting.
Can a composite frame be safely spread from 126 to 130?
Note 1: I'm not talking about permanently spreading it (i.e. cold setting) just temporarily "springing" the frame apart as Sheldon describes below.
Note 2: I know it can be done. The key word is safely. I quite like the frame and don't want to risk damage to it.
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
Ideally, the frame spacing should exactly match the hub spacing. This makes for easiest wheel replacement. In practice, however, there's a fair amount of latitude in fit. In fact, when the first 130 mm 8-speed hubs were introduced, they had locknuts with beveled sides, so that you could "spring" apart the rear triangle of a frame made for the then-standard 126 mm spacing.
In general, you can safely go up one size in spacing this way, just springing the frame apart. I can't give you an absolute guarantee that this won't cause damage, but the odds are very much in your favor.
In general, you can safely go up one size in spacing this way, just springing the frame apart. I can't give you an absolute guarantee that this won't cause damage, but the odds are very much in your favor.
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
If your frame is made of steel, you can change the spacing to accommodate different hub spacing. This is most commonly done to widen the spacing, to permit the use of a cluster with more sprockets than the frame was built for.
Note, if you're not careful, you can do serious damage to your frame this way!
If your frame is made of aluminum or carbon fiber, do not attempt to re-space the frame, these materials are not suitable for "cold setting."
Note, if you're not careful, you can do serious damage to your frame this way!
If your frame is made of aluminum or carbon fiber, do not attempt to re-space the frame, these materials are not suitable for "cold setting."
05-15-10, 02:43 PM
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I wouldn't do it.
But, there is hope.
Take a ruler out and measure how wide the frame actually is. Often 126mm actually happens to be 128mm or so. If it is, then just take out an axle spacer from the drive side, which should bring the wheel down to around 128mm.
But, there is hope.
Take a ruler out and measure how wide the frame actually is. Often 126mm actually happens to be 128mm or so. If it is, then just take out an axle spacer from the drive side, which should bring the wheel down to around 128mm.
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05-15-10, 03:34 PM
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I have a Trek bonded Al frame from that same period and it was spaced 128 mm as the same frame was sold with 7-speed 105 (126 mm) and 8-speed Ultegra (130 mm) components. If that's the case, use your 130 mm hub with confidence. Mine came with 7-speed 105 but has had 130 mm 8-speed hubs installed for the past many years. No problems.
Sheldon is referring to "cold setting", i.e. permanantly deforming the frame to the wider spacing. Steel frames are easy and perfectly safe to do this to but aluminum and carbon frames should never be cold set. However, flexing the stays a bit to fit a 130 mm hub into a 126 mm (or better, 128 mm) spacing is no problem.
Sheldon is referring to "cold setting", i.e. permanantly deforming the frame to the wider spacing. Steel frames are easy and perfectly safe to do this to but aluminum and carbon frames should never be cold set. However, flexing the stays a bit to fit a 130 mm hub into a 126 mm (or better, 128 mm) spacing is no problem.
05-15-10, 05:31 PM
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I have a Trek bonded Al frame from that same period and it was spaced 128 mm as the same frame was sold with 7-speed 105 (126 mm) and 8-speed Ultegra (130 mm) components. If that's the case, use your 130 mm hub with confidence. Mine came with 7-speed 105 but has had 130 mm 8-speed hubs installed for the past many years. No problems.
Sheldon is referring to "cold setting", i.e. permanantly deforming the frame to the wider spacing. Steel frames are easy and perfectly safe to do this to but aluminum and carbon frames should never be cold set. However, flexing the stays a bit to fit a 130 mm hub into a 126 mm (or better, 128 mm) spacing is no problem.
Sheldon is referring to "cold setting", i.e. permanantly deforming the frame to the wider spacing. Steel frames are easy and perfectly safe to do this to but aluminum and carbon frames should never be cold set. However, flexing the stays a bit to fit a 130 mm hub into a 126 mm (or better, 128 mm) spacing is no problem.
05-15-10, 06:17 PM
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Composite cannot be coldset (bent) like metal can, so permanently spreading it is not an option.
If you can gently spread the frame to fit the wheel, then you're OK. But if it requires serious force don't try.
If you do ride it with the wider axle you'll want to re-square the dropouts so they're parallel at the wider width. To do so, you'll need to spread the frame, and wedge a block of wood between the chainstays to maintain the width while you use dropout squaring tools to bend them.
In all likelihood it'll be a go, but decide in advance if it's worth the effort to you.
If you can gently spread the frame to fit the wheel, then you're OK. But if it requires serious force don't try.
If you do ride it with the wider axle you'll want to re-square the dropouts so they're parallel at the wider width. To do so, you'll need to spread the frame, and wedge a block of wood between the chainstays to maintain the width while you use dropout squaring tools to bend them.
In all likelihood it'll be a go, but decide in advance if it's worth the effort to you.
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05-15-10, 06:39 PM
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Composite cannot be coldset (bent) like metal can, so permanently spreading it is not an option.
If you can gently spread the frame to fit the wheel, then you're OK. But if it requires serious force don't try.
If you do ride it with the wider axle you'll want to re-square the dropouts so they're parallel at the wider width. To do so, you'll need to spread the frame, and wedge a block of wood between the chainstays to maintain the width while you use dropout squaring tools to bend them.
In all likelihood it'll be a go, but decide in advance if it's worth the effort to you.
If you can gently spread the frame to fit the wheel, then you're OK. But if it requires serious force don't try.
If you do ride it with the wider axle you'll want to re-square the dropouts so they're parallel at the wider width. To do so, you'll need to spread the frame, and wedge a block of wood between the chainstays to maintain the width while you use dropout squaring tools to bend them.
In all likelihood it'll be a go, but decide in advance if it's worth the effort to you.
Sheldon's frame spacing page does not mention re-squaring of drop outs. I see Park Tool says "A bent dropout will cause the axle to flex and in some cases bend and break. Typically, misaligned dropouts will not effect how a wheel centers in a frame, unless the dropout is extremely misaligned." But is it really necessary for such a small change (127 to 130)?
05-15-10, 07:27 PM
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What about using a file and file those dropouts 2 mms each side? Sadly carbon composites frames cant be respaced and probably if you try to manage the dropouts to spread them you might be risking a crack in the chainstays and seatstays, so if that happens the frame is simply dead. The dropouts are pretty thick (usually), why you dont file them 2 mms at each side?
If you put the wheel in there there is a big chance that the frame gets a nasty crack in the seatstays or chainstays and all w/o even warn you about it so you might be risking an accident. Try to file the drop outs but respacing is a no no my friend.
If you put the wheel in there there is a big chance that the frame gets a nasty crack in the seatstays or chainstays and all w/o even warn you about it so you might be risking an accident. Try to file the drop outs but respacing is a no no my friend.
05-15-10, 07:49 PM
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The parallelism of the dropouts was my first thought. That and the stress on the dropout metal to carbon joints will see from forcing them parallel by clamping the wheel in place. I'd suggest swapping or removing a spacer to match the wheel spacing to the frame spacing. But check it for parallel dropouts with no wheel in place first. It may be that the dropouts are a hair splayed out and would benefit from being spread a little.
05-15-10, 08:32 PM
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If you're worried about putting too much dish on your wheel, fit an OCR. Then it'll have better dish than a normal 130mm wheel. This is because it only takes 1.5mm of spoke hole offset to make up the difference, and OCRs all have more than that.
05-15-10, 08:45 PM
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If the frame was built at 128 to split the difference, 2mm either way isn't a deal breaker. But if your spreading the full 4mm it might help to re-square the dropouts. Alternatively you might loosen the rear hub cones to keep the flexed axle from overloading the bearings, and re-adjust them after the wheel is tightened.
Realistically it might not make a world of difference anyway, since spreading a frame 4mm will put the dropouts 0.7 degrees out of parallel, a difference probably very close to working accuracy of the dropout tool.
Realistically it might not make a world of difference anyway, since spreading a frame 4mm will put the dropouts 0.7 degrees out of parallel, a difference probably very close to working accuracy of the dropout tool.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
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WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
