Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-11-09, 09:14 PM   #1
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Radial Truing

First off, I did use the search. *Clears Voice*

I took an old 27'' wheel and did a singlespeed conversion on it today, axle-respace, some dishing.
I got it nearly perfectly laterally trued, but the wheel has some radial troubles.

Any suggustions on radial truing with out a stand?
Can a 1 1/4'' junk tire be deceiving to the wobble of the wheel?

I wish I had a stand.
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 09:21 PM   #2
Soil_Sampler
A little North of Hell
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 4,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
take the tire off.
Soil_Sampler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 09:33 PM   #3
Panthers007
Great State of Varmint
 
Panthers007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dante's Third Ring
Bikes:
Posts: 7,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Always make radial-adjustments with a pair of spokes. This way it shouldn't effect your lateral true.
Panthers007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 09:51 PM   #4
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
By pair u mean two that are crossed? or one from each side of hub?
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 10:16 PM   #5
Panthers007
Great State of Varmint
 
Panthers007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dante's Third Ring
Bikes:
Posts: 7,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One on each side of the hub/rim. If you tighten one on the right side 1/4 turn, do the same to the spoke opposite it on the left side. If you tighten one spoke only, it will pull the rim in that direction and your wheel will go out of true side-to-side (lateral-truing). So tighten both sides.

Think about it visually. And read this:

http://sheldonbrown.com/wheels/index.html
Panthers007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 10:22 PM   #6
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks. Theres a bike shop a couple blocks from my house, but they are really arrogant. They do not like answering questions.
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 10:43 PM   #7
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Should I allign a zip tie above the rim?
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 12:10 AM   #8
MilitantPotato
Subjectively Insane
 
MilitantPotato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Bikes: '09 Rodriguez Adventurer Custom, '08 Trek 7.3Fx
Posts: 802
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Tape a tire lever or something that's straight to the chainstay. A big ziptie would work, might damage the paint if it moves around.
MilitantPotato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 12:57 AM   #9
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Will the straight object be fixed in one position? move torward, or away from it? Just takes expierence I guess.
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 01:51 AM   #10
badmother
Senior Member
 
badmother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 3,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Search for hommade truingstands. Plenty of them made from old forks and other stuff. Great help plus you do not worry about paint.
badmother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 02:02 AM   #11
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Bikes: See my sig...
Posts: 27,264
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
A zip tie attached to the stays won't cause a problem...

In my (commercial) shop I use a diy stand made with an old fork and it uses zip ties and a dial indicator for really fine tuning.

It has served me well for many many years.
Sixty Fiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 06:32 AM   #12
dahoyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Take the tire off.

You can take some tape or something, and go across the chainstays, and visually measure from it to see how much radial runout you have. I use a magnet, so I can adjust it easily.

From there, it is just a question of patience. As Panthers pointed out, always adjust adjacent spoke pairs and you will not throw off the lateral too much, drive and non-drive side is the pair. Not crossed spokes, You will have to go back and check it as a last step.

FYI, it can be hard to bring an old steel 27 in, because they can be bent and have low spots that can't be removed with truing. There are tools made for pulling the flat spot back out, but I don't know if you can find a bike shop which still has one. Seems most shops want to just sell bikes these days, and offer limited repairs on the side.
dahoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 10:41 AM   #13
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If radial truing causes uneven spoke tension it probably means that the rim is bent and needs to be corrected or replaced. You can't do a good job of radial truing with the tire on.

Al
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 11:01 AM   #14
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Can rims be bent in the radial aspecT?
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 11:09 AM   #15
Hydrated
Reeks of aged cotton duck
 
Hydrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Middle Georgia, USA
Bikes: 2008 Kogswell PR mkII, 1976 Raleigh Professional, 1996 Serotta Atlanta, 1984 Trek 520, 1979 Raleigh Comp GS, 1995 Trek 950, 1979 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobert View Post
Can rims be bent in the radial aspecT?
Absolutely. Hitting a nice rock, pothole, or curb at warp speed will do it.
Hydrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 03:07 PM   #16
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am so Angry right now. Its a singlewalled old weinmann rim. I feel like the rim is bent. But Ill never know untill I cut out all the spokes and lay it flat on the ground. Makes me feel like Im a failure at truing wheels. And all my hopes and dreams in wheel building are collasping. God-darnit. And the fact that I don't have a truing stand isn't helping.
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 03:25 PM   #17
dahoyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobert View Post
I am so Angry right now. Its a singlewalled old weinmann rim. I feel like the rim is bent. But Ill never know untill I cut out all the spokes and lay it flat on the ground. Makes me feel like Im a failure at truing wheels. And all my hopes and dreams in wheel building are collasping. God-darnit. And the fact that I don't have a truing stand isn't helping.
See if your LBS has the capability to straighten the wheel, if it is actually bent.

They would need something like this.

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cg...item_id=CU-030
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CU-030.jpg (4.3 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by dahoyle; 08-12-09 at 04:18 PM.
dahoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 03:58 PM   #18
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dont rims get bent just by riding them?
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 04:09 PM   #19
dahoyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As a general rule, it would require some sort of elevated force to actually bend one beyond it's yield point. (the point at which it deforms and doesn't return back to it;s original shape)
dahoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 04:34 PM   #20
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When the bike is flipped up side down, and I spin the wheel, the whole bike starts to shake. But appears to be latterally intrue, and today I tried to radial. What ever. Maybe its just a junk wheel? with a crap tire?
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 04:59 PM   #21
Hydrated
Reeks of aged cotton duck
 
Hydrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Middle Georgia, USA
Bikes: 2008 Kogswell PR mkII, 1976 Raleigh Professional, 1996 Serotta Atlanta, 1984 Trek 520, 1979 Raleigh Comp GS, 1995 Trek 950, 1979 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobert View Post
When the bike is flipped up side down, and I spin the wheel, the whole bike starts to shake. But appears to be latterally intrue, and today I tried to radial. What ever. Maybe its just a junk wheel? with a crap tire?
Take the tire off. You may be going to a lot of trouble and worry trying to troubleshoot a rim problem that's actually a tire problem.
Hydrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 06:04 PM   #22
Noobert
I am Noobert.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I took the tire off, and tapes the tire lever on, When the rim rubbed I Tightened the spokes by pairs.

Wheel Truing takes time to learn? Im 21 years old. Im just kind of angry that Ive still gotta pay people to true my wheels.

Im still going to take up wheel building, and not let it get me downl.

Bottom Line, Would you say that it takes time, and takes a good time to master? Or do some people just not have what it takeS?

Having a mechanic-mentor would help.

Also: If its radially un-true will that cause the bike to shake, when upside down? THank you for helping me guys.

Last edited by Noobert; 08-12-09 at 06:13 PM.
Noobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 07:13 PM   #23
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobert View Post

Also: If its radially un-true will that cause the bike to shake, when upside down?
Maybe but it's more likely related to an out of balance tire/wheel combination. Some shaking is not necessarily a bad sign on a bike tire when spinning freely. Good balance is not so critical on a bike.

If you want to try to straighten the rim take the wheel apart. Use a rubber mallet and some wood blocks to re-shape the rim. Re-build the wheel using the same spokes and nipples. It's really not so hard to do. But don't expect the rim to be perfect. It needs to be close enough that the spoke tension is close to equal, or close to equal on either side if the wheel is a rear dished for a cog set.

Steel rims are good for practicing your building techniques, not so good for riding.

Al
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 08:50 PM   #24
vredstein
Senior Member
 
vredstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Bikes: '02 Lemond Buenos Aires, '98 Fuji Touring w/ Shimano Nexus premium, '06 Jamis Nova 853 cross frame set up as commuter, '03 Fuji Roubaix Pro 853 back up training bike
Posts: 704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Follow through with your intention to learn wheel building, and you'll learn more about truing than is ever possible through just "tweaking" existing wheels.
vredstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-09, 08:56 PM   #25
Panthers007
Great State of Varmint
 
Panthers007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dante's Third Ring
Bikes:
Posts: 7,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vredstein View Post
Follow through with your intention to learn wheel building, and you'll learn more about truing than is ever possible through just "tweaking" existing wheels.
+3

That is, without a doubt, the best road to take. Then truing can be done without much thought or fear.
Panthers007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:24 AM.