Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-15-09, 12:11 PM   #1
jimbossa
Member
Thread Starter
 
jimbossa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Seattle, Washington
Bikes:
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dura Ace Front shifter compatability

My front right dura ace 7403 shifter (1st gen STI) broke. My LBS had a look at them and said I need to replace them. Can I get any type of dura ace shifter, e.g. 7700 or the 7800 or do I have to stick with the 7403?

Also, does anyone know where I can get some for cheap, I'm kind of still in college and skint of money

Thanks!
jimbossa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 03:40 PM   #2
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Unfortunately, pre 9-speed Dura-Ace uses a proprietary cable pull and actuation ratio that make the right shifter and rear derailleur incompatible with other Shimano components. There is an "alternate" cable routing that does allow other Shimano shifters to be used with the 8-speed D-A shifter. See Sheldon Brown's site for that, or just try google.
Something else that will work is to use an 8-speed shifter and rear derailleur from some other Shimano 8-speed group. I'm assuming you have an 8-speed cassette.
Or you can upgrade the shifters, rear derailleur, chain, and cassette to 9-speed or 10-speed Shimano, but that will get expensive. The shifters, cassette, and chain must all be of the same "speed". Your rear derailleur will not work with anything other than 8-speed.
You haven't said what is wrong with your shifter. Shimano STI shifters are often restored by cleaning out the shifters with WD40.

Al
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 03:50 PM   #3
Gonzo Bob
cycles per second
 
Gonzo Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Minnesota
Bikes: Vitus Aluminum, DiamondBack Apex, Softride Powerwing 700, "Generic" Ishiwata 022, Trek OCLV 110
Posts: 1,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Are you running 8-speed? Any Shimano 9-speed shifter will shift the Dura-Ace 7400 (or 7401 or 7402) rear derailer at 8-speed spacing. It actually states that on my 9-speed bar-end shifters. So get any 9-speed STI shifters (doesn't need to be Dura-Ace). Then when you have $$ for further upgrade, get a 9-speed chain and cassette and a new Shimano rear derailer.
Gonzo Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 03:53 PM   #4
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo Bob View Post
Are you running 8-speed? Any Shimano 9-speed shifter will shift the Dura-Ace 7400 (or 7401 or 7402) rear derailer at 8-speed spacing. It actually states that on my 9-speed bar-end shifters. So get any 9-speed STI shifters (doesn't need to be Dura-Ace). Then when you have $$ for further upgrade, get a 9-speed chain and cassette and a new Shimano rear derailer.
That is not true for STI shifters.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 03:57 PM   #5
Gonzo Bob
cycles per second
 
Gonzo Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Minnesota
Bikes: Vitus Aluminum, DiamondBack Apex, Softride Powerwing 700, "Generic" Ishiwata 022, Trek OCLV 110
Posts: 1,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
That is not true for STI shifters.
OK - I'm confused. An STI shifter needs to pull the same cable as a down-tube or bar-end. Why would it be different?

This table says "Any 9-speed shifter"
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#indexing

Last edited by Gonzo Bob; 09-15-09 at 04:01 PM.
Gonzo Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 04:00 PM   #6
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sheldon Brown had some comments about the D-A problems.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 04:07 PM   #7
Gonzo Bob
cycles per second
 
Gonzo Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Minnesota
Bikes: Vitus Aluminum, DiamondBack Apex, Softride Powerwing 700, "Generic" Ishiwata 022, Trek OCLV 110
Posts: 1,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Sheldon Brown had some comments about the D-A problems.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html
If you look under that table, it says...

*This includes down-tube, bar-end and STI shifters

I know all about the old Dura-Ace issues since I have the 7400.
Gonzo Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 04:22 PM   #8
jimbossa
Member
Thread Starter
 
jimbossa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Seattle, Washington
Bikes:
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the replies. The shifter doesn't shift, when I pull it left, it doesn't do anything. I can feel wire tension and the shifter trying to move the derailleur, but it does not click into place.

Can I do what Gonzo Bob said and use 9spd shifters or should I just bite the bullet and try and find 8spd shifters. Does anyone have any kicking about?

Last edited by jimbossa; 09-15-09 at 04:26 PM.
jimbossa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 04:23 PM   #9
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do not believe Sheldon meant that you can use a 9-speed shifter with an 8-speed cassette. I think his chart refers to using the "alternate cable routing" to fool the derailleur.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 07:39 PM   #10
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Have you tried the WD40 trick? When my 9-speed Dura-Ace shifters quit clicking or shifting I squirted in a lot of WD40 and they started working again, that was 10 years ago. They're still working perfectly.

My suggestions have taken into consideration that you are a student on a budget. But if you are seriously considering buying shifters then it just makes more sense to upgrade to 9 or even 10-speed stuff. In your case you would need shifters, cassette, chain, and in your case, a new rear derailleur. The shifters, cassette, and chain need to be of the same "speed" generation. The rear derailleur could be any Shimano 9 or 10-speed RD. Your 8-speed D-A rear derailleur is not cross-compatible unless you want to try the "alternate routing" technique. A 9 or 10-speed Shimano cassette will work on an 8-speed Shimano compatible hub. In general, Campagnolo components are not be compatible, SRAM shifters and derailleurs are not compatible, but SRAM chains and cassettes are compatible with Shimano.

Al

Last edited by Al1943; 09-15-09 at 08:12 PM.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 08:04 PM   #11
Ex Pres
#39
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: the 35223 (AL)
Bikes:
Posts: 6,260
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
That is not true for STI shifters.
Yes it is, I'm doing it. 9s shifter, 740x RD, 8s cassette
Ex Pres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 08:17 PM   #12
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
Yes it is, I'm doing it. 9s shifter, 740x RD, 8s cassette
Ok, I didn't know you could do that. Are you using the alternate routing, since the cable pull is different?

Last edited by Al1943; 09-15-09 at 08:44 PM.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 08:32 PM   #13
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,106
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Jim, can't really help with your problem but I'd be curious to take a peek inside of your shifters and see what's worn out. See my shifter rebuild thread for more info and let me know if you are interested in donating them to the cause.

Calling all owners of non-working Shimano 10 speed brifters
joejack951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-09, 11:33 PM   #14
jimbossa
Member
Thread Starter
 
jimbossa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Seattle, Washington
Bikes:
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Have you tried the WD40 trick?
Yes, I have hosed it down, not really working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
Yes it is, I'm doing it. 9s shifter, 740x RD, 8s cassette
Have you installed that set up or in the process of doing it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
Jim, can't really help with your problem but I'd be curious to take a peek inside of your shifters and see what's worn out. See my shifter rebuild thread for more info and let me know if you are interested in donating them to the cause.
I would definitely be up for sending them to you. Did you say in your thread that you would send them back even if you couldn't fix them? I wouldn't mind eventually using them as wall art or putting them on just for braking; if eventually they couldn't be fixed. Where do I send it to?



Lastly, does anyone know where it would be good to buy a new set of shifters?
jimbossa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-09, 12:06 AM   #15
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Posts: 28,306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
Yes it is, I'm doing it. 9s shifter, 740x RD, 8s cassette
There's no way this actually shifts properly or as well as a properly matched shifter. The spacing is similar but not identical.
operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-09, 06:22 AM   #16
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2014 Islabikes CNOC 14 (son's)
Posts: 10,106
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbossa View Post
I would definitely be up for sending them to you. Did you say in your thread that you would send them back even if you couldn't fix them? I wouldn't mind eventually using them as wall art or putting them on just for braking; if eventually they couldn't be fixed. Where do I send it to?
Yes, regardless of whether I fixed them or not, I will return them. Keep in mind that I'm not focusing my efforts on 8 speed shifters at this time (especially not oddball Dura Ace 8 speed) but it's another data point for determining where these things tend to wear out. I'm thinking I may get lucky and either find that your shifters use a similar part to the later types or whatever is worn can be repaired by shimming a component or something similar.
joejack951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-09, 07:09 AM   #17
Ex Pres
#39
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: the 35223 (AL)
Bikes:
Posts: 6,260
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo Bob View Post
Any Shimano 9-speed shifter will shift the Dura-Ace 7400 (or 7401 or 7402) rear derailer at 8-speed spacing. It actually states that on my 9-speed bar-end shifters.
This is key - straight from the source - Shimano. They say it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Ok, I didn't know you could do that. Are you using the alternate routing, since the cable pull is different?
No

Quote:
Originally Posted by operator View Post
There's no way this actually shifts properly or as well as a properly matched shifter. The spacing is similar but not identical.
See #1 - Shimano says it works.
Ex Pres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-09, 11:32 AM   #18
Gonzo Bob
cycles per second
 
Gonzo Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Minnesota
Bikes: Vitus Aluminum, DiamondBack Apex, Softride Powerwing 700, "Generic" Ishiwata 022, Trek OCLV 110
Posts: 1,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
I do not believe Sheldon meant that you can use a 9-speed shifter with an 8-speed cassette. I think his chart refers to using the "alternate cable routing" to fool the derailleur.
Yes, he did. Look at the 4th line of Sheldon's Index Interchangeability Chart - http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#indexing

"Any 9-speed shifter", "8-speed cassette", "Old Dura-Ace rear derailer"

The alternate cable routing is needed only when you are tyring to use old Dura-Ace shifters with anything but an old Dura-Ace rear derailer.
Gonzo Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-09, 11:37 AM   #19
Gonzo Bob
cycles per second
 
Gonzo Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Minnesota
Bikes: Vitus Aluminum, DiamondBack Apex, Softride Powerwing 700, "Generic" Ishiwata 022, Trek OCLV 110
Posts: 1,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Ok, I didn't know you could do that. Are you using the alternate routing, since the cable pull is different?
The cable pull of Shimano 9-speed shifters and Dura-Ace 8-speed shifters is the same.
Gonzo Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-09, 03:50 PM   #20
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzo Bob View Post
The cable pull of Shimano 9-speed shifters and Dura-Ace 8-speed shifters is the same.
No, the cable pull is not the same but the combination of the 9-speed Shimano shifters (2.5mm) with the 8-speed Dura-Ace rear derailleur (1.9 ratio) just happens to result in very nearly correct pitch (2.75) for an 8-speed Shimano cassette. I've learned something. Here is a chart presented by the UK cyclist organization that helps explain how this works: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault...D=3946#Shimano

Bottom line is the OP should try using 9-speed Shimano shifters combined with the 8-speed D-A RD. It should work well, like Bob Barker and Gonzo Bob have said. But this would not work with a standard Shimano rear derailleur.

Last edited by Al1943; 09-16-09 at 04:00 PM.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:24 PM.