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  1. #1
    Member jimbossa's Avatar
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    Dura Ace Front shifter compatability

    My front right dura ace 7403 shifter (1st gen STI) broke. My LBS had a look at them and said I need to replace them. Can I get any type of dura ace shifter, e.g. 7700 or the 7800 or do I have to stick with the 7403?

    Also, does anyone know where I can get some for cheap, I'm kind of still in college and skint of money

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Unfortunately, pre 9-speed Dura-Ace uses a proprietary cable pull and actuation ratio that make the right shifter and rear derailleur incompatible with other Shimano components. There is an "alternate" cable routing that does allow other Shimano shifters to be used with the 8-speed D-A shifter. See Sheldon Brown's site for that, or just try google.
    Something else that will work is to use an 8-speed shifter and rear derailleur from some other Shimano 8-speed group. I'm assuming you have an 8-speed cassette.
    Or you can upgrade the shifters, rear derailleur, chain, and cassette to 9-speed or 10-speed Shimano, but that will get expensive. The shifters, cassette, and chain must all be of the same "speed". Your rear derailleur will not work with anything other than 8-speed.
    You haven't said what is wrong with your shifter. Shimano STI shifters are often restored by cleaning out the shifters with WD40.

    Al

  3. #3
    cycles per second Gonzo Bob's Avatar
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    Are you running 8-speed? Any Shimano 9-speed shifter will shift the Dura-Ace 7400 (or 7401 or 7402) rear derailer at 8-speed spacing. It actually states that on my 9-speed bar-end shifters. So get any 9-speed STI shifters (doesn't need to be Dura-Ace). Then when you have $$ for further upgrade, get a 9-speed chain and cassette and a new Shimano rear derailer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Bob View Post
    Are you running 8-speed? Any Shimano 9-speed shifter will shift the Dura-Ace 7400 (or 7401 or 7402) rear derailer at 8-speed spacing. It actually states that on my 9-speed bar-end shifters. So get any 9-speed STI shifters (doesn't need to be Dura-Ace). Then when you have $$ for further upgrade, get a 9-speed chain and cassette and a new Shimano rear derailer.
    That is not true for STI shifters.

  5. #5
    cycles per second Gonzo Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    That is not true for STI shifters.
    OK - I'm confused. An STI shifter needs to pull the same cable as a down-tube or bar-end. Why would it be different?

    This table says "Any 9-speed shifter"
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#indexing
    Last edited by Gonzo Bob; 09-15-09 at 04:01 PM.

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    Sheldon Brown had some comments about the D-A problems.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html

  7. #7
    cycles per second Gonzo Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    Sheldon Brown had some comments about the D-A problems.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html
    If you look under that table, it says...

    *This includes down-tube, bar-end and STI shifters

    I know all about the old Dura-Ace issues since I have the 7400.

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    Member jimbossa's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. The shifter doesn't shift, when I pull it left, it doesn't do anything. I can feel wire tension and the shifter trying to move the derailleur, but it does not click into place.

    Can I do what Gonzo Bob said and use 9spd shifters or should I just bite the bullet and try and find 8spd shifters. Does anyone have any kicking about?
    Last edited by jimbossa; 09-15-09 at 04:26 PM.

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    I do not believe Sheldon meant that you can use a 9-speed shifter with an 8-speed cassette. I think his chart refers to using the "alternate cable routing" to fool the derailleur.

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    Have you tried the WD40 trick? When my 9-speed Dura-Ace shifters quit clicking or shifting I squirted in a lot of WD40 and they started working again, that was 10 years ago. They're still working perfectly.

    My suggestions have taken into consideration that you are a student on a budget. But if you are seriously considering buying shifters then it just makes more sense to upgrade to 9 or even 10-speed stuff. In your case you would need shifters, cassette, chain, and in your case, a new rear derailleur. The shifters, cassette, and chain need to be of the same "speed" generation. The rear derailleur could be any Shimano 9 or 10-speed RD. Your 8-speed D-A rear derailleur is not cross-compatible unless you want to try the "alternate routing" technique. A 9 or 10-speed Shimano cassette will work on an 8-speed Shimano compatible hub. In general, Campagnolo components are not be compatible, SRAM shifters and derailleurs are not compatible, but SRAM chains and cassettes are compatible with Shimano.

    Al
    Last edited by Al1943; 09-15-09 at 08:12 PM.

  11. #11
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    That is not true for STI shifters.
    Yes it is, I'm doing it. 9s shifter, 740x RD, 8s cassette
    72 special CNC ___________ 72 Frejus (ala Legnano) __73 Holdsworth Record
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
    Yes it is, I'm doing it. 9s shifter, 740x RD, 8s cassette
    Ok, I didn't know you could do that. Are you using the alternate routing, since the cable pull is different?
    Last edited by Al1943; 09-15-09 at 08:44 PM.

  13. #13
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    Jim, can't really help with your problem but I'd be curious to take a peek inside of your shifters and see what's worn out. See my shifter rebuild thread for more info and let me know if you are interested in donating them to the cause.

    Calling all owners of non-working Shimano 10 speed brifters

  14. #14
    Member jimbossa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    Have you tried the WD40 trick?
    Yes, I have hosed it down, not really working.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
    Yes it is, I'm doing it. 9s shifter, 740x RD, 8s cassette
    Have you installed that set up or in the process of doing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951 View Post
    Jim, can't really help with your problem but I'd be curious to take a peek inside of your shifters and see what's worn out. See my shifter rebuild thread for more info and let me know if you are interested in donating them to the cause.
    I would definitely be up for sending them to you. Did you say in your thread that you would send them back even if you couldn't fix them? I wouldn't mind eventually using them as wall art or putting them on just for braking; if eventually they couldn't be fixed. Where do I send it to?



    Lastly, does anyone know where it would be good to buy a new set of shifters?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Barker View Post
    Yes it is, I'm doing it. 9s shifter, 740x RD, 8s cassette
    There's no way this actually shifts properly or as well as a properly matched shifter. The spacing is similar but not identical.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbossa View Post
    I would definitely be up for sending them to you. Did you say in your thread that you would send them back even if you couldn't fix them? I wouldn't mind eventually using them as wall art or putting them on just for braking; if eventually they couldn't be fixed. Where do I send it to?
    Yes, regardless of whether I fixed them or not, I will return them. Keep in mind that I'm not focusing my efforts on 8 speed shifters at this time (especially not oddball Dura Ace 8 speed) but it's another data point for determining where these things tend to wear out. I'm thinking I may get lucky and either find that your shifters use a similar part to the later types or whatever is worn can be repaired by shimming a component or something similar.

  17. #17
    slow as I ever was Ex Pres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Bob View Post
    Any Shimano 9-speed shifter will shift the Dura-Ace 7400 (or 7401 or 7402) rear derailer at 8-speed spacing. It actually states that on my 9-speed bar-end shifters.
    This is key - straight from the source - Shimano. They say it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    Ok, I didn't know you could do that. Are you using the alternate routing, since the cable pull is different?
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    There's no way this actually shifts properly or as well as a properly matched shifter. The spacing is similar but not identical.
    See #1 - Shimano says it works.
    72 special CNC ___________ 72 Frejus (ala Legnano) __73 Holdsworth Record
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  18. #18
    cycles per second Gonzo Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    I do not believe Sheldon meant that you can use a 9-speed shifter with an 8-speed cassette. I think his chart refers to using the "alternate cable routing" to fool the derailleur.
    Yes, he did. Look at the 4th line of Sheldon's Index Interchangeability Chart - http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html#indexing

    "Any 9-speed shifter", "8-speed cassette", "Old Dura-Ace rear derailer"

    The alternate cable routing is needed only when you are tyring to use old Dura-Ace shifters with anything but an old Dura-Ace rear derailer.

  19. #19
    cycles per second Gonzo Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
    Ok, I didn't know you could do that. Are you using the alternate routing, since the cable pull is different?
    The cable pull of Shimano 9-speed shifters and Dura-Ace 8-speed shifters is the same.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Bob View Post
    The cable pull of Shimano 9-speed shifters and Dura-Ace 8-speed shifters is the same.
    No, the cable pull is not the same but the combination of the 9-speed Shimano shifters (2.5mm) with the 8-speed Dura-Ace rear derailleur (1.9 ratio) just happens to result in very nearly correct pitch (2.75) for an 8-speed Shimano cassette. I've learned something. Here is a chart presented by the UK cyclist organization that helps explain how this works: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault...D=3946#Shimano

    Bottom line is the OP should try using 9-speed Shimano shifters combined with the 8-speed D-A RD. It should work well, like Bob Barker and Gonzo Bob have said. But this would not work with a standard Shimano rear derailleur.
    Last edited by Al1943; 09-16-09 at 04:00 PM.

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