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  1. #1
    Iconoclast rat fink's Avatar
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    Another 10 Speed Upgrade

    I tried to plan this out as efficiently as possible before posting:

    I'm planning on upgrading my full Shimano Dura Ace 7400 equipped bike with 10 speed utilizing a mix of newer DA/Ultegra. Here is what I have on hand and what I am planning on using, indicated in the list.

    - DA (7800 or 7900) 10 speed downtube shifters (have yet to acquire)
    - reusing FC-7400 crank
    - Shimano WH-7800 wheelset - Dura Ace 7800 10 speed only (have)
    - Ultegra 6600 front derailleur (have)
    - DA 7800 or Ultegra 6600 short cage rear derailleur (have yet to acquire)
    - suitable 10 speed cassette, probably Ultegra (don't have that yet either)
    - 10 speed chain (not entirely sure what to get)

    Questions:

    1 Would that work?
    2 Is there anything I have omitted, or is there anything in that list that I do not need to change?
    3 Are there any variants of hyperglide chainrings that I might be able to mount to my FC-7400 crank?
    4 How important is it to use a Shimano "10 speed" rear derailleur for this setup? Could use a 9 speed? Could I use a Campy RD, like Veloce or Mirage, or maybe even Sram?
    5 What chain would you recommend for this?

    I would appreciate your feedback, O wizards of BF. Thanks!
    Last edited by rat fink; 09-28-09 at 05:21 PM.
    "Winning is the best deodorant. Someone can look at your bike and say it stinks, but if you win with it, suddenly it's okay." - Jim Busby

  2. #2
    I suck, but you're worse
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    I'd have to look at all of the stuff to give definitive answers for everything, and I am too lazy for this, and I don't work on mega geared bikes enough to know offhand if 9 and 10 speed rear cogs take up the same space, though I believe they do.

    the one thing I can tell you now is not to mix campy with shimano drive trains. Campy and shimano use different indexing so yiour indexed shimano shifters would not move the campy rear mech enough to shift gears properly.

  3. #3
    I suck, but you're worse
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    Since you havent got the rear mech yet just go for a simano compatible 10 speed rear if you can find one at a reasonable price.

  4. #4
    Senior Member johnknappcc's Avatar
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    Stick to Shimano since you already have a number of the parts.

    SRAM uses a different cable pull ratio, so no-no on the mix, and as said above different indexing on campy.

    Cheap Shimano Ultegra RD, 6500 from Cambria will work fine. It's like 40 bucks, it's a long cage, so I'm not sure if that is off-putting to you.

    Could I recommend maybe a set of brifters to compliment the 10 speed, getting away from DT's. It's a little costly, but it's one helluva upgrade. You'll have more gears, so you may as well be able to shift them faster.

    As for chains, that's personal. Any 10 SRAM or Shimano or KMC will be fine, I like my Ultegra 10 speed chain with a Superlink III, especially since SRAM's powerlock - notice not link, is not supposed to be reused, and Shimano's require replacement pins and a special chain tool.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    Any Shimano rear derailleur will work except 7400 and older DA which have different cable pull. Campy and Sram use their own cable pull ratios and are not compatible unless you also get the appropriate Jtek shiftmate.

  6. #6
    cycles per second Gonzo Bob's Avatar
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    1) Yes.
    2) If you had 7400 8-speed, you didn't really need a new wheelset as 10-speed cassettes fit on 8-speed freehubs. You probably don't really need a new front derailer if you are going with friction front shifting.
    3) Any rings with 130mm BCD should fit. You will get slightly better upshifts with a ramped and pinned SuperGlide big ring (if you don't have one already). And a 10-speed inner ring will be offset toward the big ring to prevent the chain from riding between the rings (it won't actually get jammed between the rings but may skate on the small ring for a while until it falls all the way onto it). When I converted my 8-speed to 9-speed, I intially ran the original small ring but then wanted to change from 42 to 39 anyway so bought a 9-speed inner ring.
    4) You can use a Shimano 9-speed but not Campy or SRAM.

  7. #7
    cab horn
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    Can anyone actually confirm whether or not the chainring spacing is specific to each 'speed' crankset? I don't mean "does it work". I mean is it compatible, exactly.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  8. #8
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Bob View Post
    1) Yes.
    2) If you had 7400 8-speed, you didn't really need a new wheelset as 10-speed cassettes fit on 8-speed freehubs. You probably don't really need a new front derailer if you are going with friction front shifting.
    .
    He already has the wheel.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    Can anyone actually confirm whether or not the chainring spacing is specific to each 'speed' crankset? I don't mean "does it work". I mean is it compatible, exactly.
    I think DMF is an expert on chainring spacing, and from what I can remember there are a lot of variations, some small, some not so small. And what works for a double may not work on a triple. And I suspect that you know as much or more about this than I do.

    Al

  10. #10
    Iconoclast rat fink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnknappcc View Post

    Cheap Shimano Ultegra RD, 6500 from Cambria will work fine. It's like 40 bucks, it's a long cage, so I'm not sure if that is off-putting to you.
    What are the functional differences between short and long cage RD's? I thought long cages were intended for triples?



    Quote Originally Posted by johnknappcc View Post

    I recommend maybe a set of brifters to compliment the 10 speed, getting away from DT's. It's a little costly, but it's one helluva upgrade. You'll have more gears, so you may as well be able to shift them faster.
    I appreciate that, but I actually like my down tube shifters. It's kind of like driving a stick shift to me. Most of my riding is done at a near sprint, (or climbing), so I don't usually shift much unless I am going into a headwind.

    However, I am doing this mod with brifter compatibility in mind, in case I come across a set of DA brifters in the future. One thing I don't like too much about them is that they are usually difficult to shift from the drops. I would rather be able to shift and brake from either the hoods or drops efficiently. I use ergo bars on my bikes and usually place my hands on the middle flats of the drop position for the most comfort and aerodynamics. I ride on the hoods when climbing or moving at slower speeds.
    "Winning is the best deodorant. Someone can look at your bike and say it stinks, but if you win with it, suddenly it's okay." - Jim Busby

  11. #11
    Senior Member johnknappcc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
    What are the functional differences between short and long cage RD's? I thought long cages were intended for triples?
    More chain wrap, so that you can run a larger difference in teeth from low to high. A long cage will work fine (I'm running one with my compact double, although I could get away with a short cage), and although some might claim the shifts aren't as crisp, on proper setup they will shift just as well.

    Considering they are half price of the short cages, it's a good place to save money.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
    However, I am doing this mod with brifter compatibility in mind, in case I come across a set of DA brifters in the future. One thing I don't like too much about them is that they are usually difficult to shift from the drops. I would rather be able to shift and brake from either the hoods or drops efficiently. I use ergo bars on my bikes and usually place my hands on the middle flats of the drop position for the most comfort and aerodynamics. I ride on the hoods when climbing or moving at slower speeds.
    Any brifters, aside from the thumb button Sora models, are very easy to shift from either the hoods or the drops. The Sora brifters are great on the hoods but most people can't reach the thumb button from the drops. One advantage of the thumb button is being able to quickly upshift from the tops of the bars though. I kind of miss not being able to do that on my two Ultegra equipped bikes.

  13. #13
    Iconoclast rat fink's Avatar
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    ...
    Last edited by rat fink; 02-04-12 at 02:47 PM.
    "Winning is the best deodorant. Someone can look at your bike and say it stinks, but if you win with it, suddenly it's okay." - Jim Busby

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