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Old 10-04-09, 11:55 AM   #1
Scrotze
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First wheel build...ever.

I just wanted to share my first wheel build ever. I bought the whole shebang on Wheelbuilder.com (any comments on these guys by the way?) I used the Phil Wood HF rear track (single fixed) hub along with the velocity B43 rim and DT competition double butted spokes.
Some other details: 32 spokes, 3-cross pattern.

So basically...nothing special, but I am fairly proud of it seeing as how it's my first wheel build (awwww)

Some comments I have:
-Velocity's stuff seems to be (or has been) "the standard" of rims in terms of strength and durability (Now I know I'm wrong, I only say this because Velocity is on the majority of bikes around my area) but I gotta say I was a bit disappointed to see the SPOT WHERE THE RIM WAS JOINED (the term escapes me at the moment). For an anal-retentive person this is not a pretty sight, but I'm only semi-A-R. My real concern is the strength of the rim at this particular spot. Is that bad? Should I be worried? Is that bad?.

-Yet again, I noticed as I tightened the spokes there were these little DIMPLES on the rim where I suppose the nipples are sitting. Is this also normal? Should there be dimples?

-Looking at the LACING PATTERN, I can't help but feel some sort of "emptiness" in the wheel. Originally I wanted to do a 36 spoke/4-cross patterned wheel to make it beefy [anyone have any pictures of such a setup? I'd like to see it pls =)] and I am under the impression that if I did this, I would have a superfluously strong, durable wheel. Plus, one of my sources while building said that 4X is usually used on large flange hubs so...

I used these three articles/published works to help me:
- Sheldon Brown's wheelbuilding article
- Some guy named MikeT on some other forum
- Gerd Schraner's "The Art Of Wheelbuilding"

annnd just a few more pictures:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/...9c668da49b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2642/...468feaa6_b.jpg


Anyways, that was my whole deal, just wanted to share. Thanks for reading!
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Old 10-04-09, 12:56 PM   #2
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Velocity wheels only have a following because they are fairl inexpensive and come in lots of cool colors and designs. IMHO Mavic is the the standard in regular type wheels. all rims are joined in some fashion and that does not look unusual. in recent years rather than a insert of some sort splice to connect the ends most manufactures have gone to welding then machining the sidewalls

I have never seen a 4x with a HF hub, and I would think the spokes might travel too far across the flange for any benifit. also a 4 cross was generally used for "loaded Touring" to create a stronger but softer wheel. what is wrong with the lacing?
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Old 10-04-09, 01:10 PM   #3
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Thanks for that! In fact, I've been debating on whether or not to build my front wheel with Mavic, you're sort of re-affirming my decision.
Nothing is wrong with the lacing, I just felt that 4x would be stronger than 3x that's all. Also because I deviated from my original plan, which was 4x and 36 holes.
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Old 10-04-09, 02:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrotze View Post
Some comments I have:
-Velocity's stuff seems to be (or has been) "the standard" of rims in terms of strength and durability (Now I know I'm wrong, I only say this because Velocity is on the majority of bikes around my area) but I gotta say I was a bit disappointed to see the SPOT WHERE THE RIM WAS JOINED (the term escapes me at the moment).
"Joint"

Quote:
For an anal-retentive person this is not a pretty sight, but I'm only semi-A-R. My real concern is the strength of the rim at this particular spot. Is that bad? Should I be worried? Is that bad?.
No; it's the spokes that hold it together, not the joint. Old-school rims just had a plug press-fitted into the joint. You could pull this out and build the wheel without it and it would hold up just fine.
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Old 10-04-09, 02:29 PM   #5
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The new and improved welded rims still have the insert in them. The manufacturers sell hype and the welded rim and hard anodizing are both an example of fixing something that ain't broke.
The rim is being pulled by, in your cas, 32 spokes that are tensioned to at least 100k. That translates to 3200 pounds pulling the rim together.
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Old 10-04-09, 03:12 PM   #6
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I have never seen a 4x with a HF hub, and I would think the spokes might travel too far across the flange for any benifit. also a 4 cross was generally used for "loaded Touring" to create a stronger but softer wheel. what is wrong with the lacing?
I've seen plenty of 4x wheels with large flange hubs. Nothing wrong with that.

There is no difference in ride or durability between 3x and 4x wheels.
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Old 10-04-09, 04:09 PM   #7
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Velocity wheels only have a following because they are fairl inexpensive and come in lots of cool colors and designs. IMHO Mavic is the the standard in regular type wheels. all rims are joined in some fashion and that does not look unusual. in recent years rather than a insert of some sort splice to connect the ends most manufactures have gone to welding then machining the sidewalls

I have never seen a 4x with a HF hub, and I would think the spokes might travel too far across the flange for any benifit. also a 4 cross was generally used for "loaded Touring" to create a stronger but softer wheel. what is wrong with the lacing?
Ditto on the relative quality of Mavic & Velocity rims. I really wish Mavic would bring back the MA-2 rims, but apparently VeloOrange is doing a repop: http://www.velo-orange.com/vopari.html

We used to lace all of the high-flange hubs 4-cross. That sometimes causes a problem replacing broken spokes if the opposing spoke crossed over the head of the broken one. As Tom says, there's no objective evidence of a difference between 3x and 4x.

A correctly built and tensioned wheel, no matter what "cross", will not flex to a significant degree. Any flexing of the wheel will be obscured by wiggling tires and handlebars.
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Old 10-04-09, 04:11 PM   #8
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A correctly built and tensioned wheel, no matter what "cross", will not flex to a significant degree. Any flexing of the wheel will be obscured by wiggling tires and handlebars.
This is not correct.

Any racer can tell you this. Even radial lacing between bladed and straight gauge round spokes provide a noticeable difference when cornering. You can optimize a wheel for it's intended function with the type of lacing e.g aero/stiffness/druability/mix of everything etc.
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Old 10-04-09, 08:07 PM   #9
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What constitutes a durable lacing pattern?
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Old 10-04-09, 08:14 PM   #10
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What constitutes a durable lacing pattern?
3x vs radial for example. For heavier riders. I can ride a 14 spoke front wheel 16 spoke rear without hesitation because I weigh nothing. Put that same wheelset on a rider that weighs 190lbs and you're asking for trouble.
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Old 10-04-09, 08:25 PM   #11
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On a 32 or 36 spoked wheel, you can't go wrong with a 3X-laced pattern. Very durable and, if properly built, unlikely to need much, if any, truing.
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Old 10-04-09, 09:04 PM   #12
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So what's the magic/mystery behind radial lacing? I've read there's no real advantage. Sheldon says it's aesthetics. Originally I wanted to build my front wheel this way, now, I'm debating whether or not I should do it.
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Old 10-04-09, 09:08 PM   #13
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So what's the magic/mystery behind radial lacing? I've read there's no real advantage. Sheldon says it's aesthetics. Originally I wanted to build my front wheel this way, now, I'm debating whether or not I should do it.
The magic is that you need much stronger everything to do radial lacing. It's supposedly stiffer. Most shimano hubs are not rated for radial lacing, for example. DT makes hubs that are especially designed for radial lacing.
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Old 10-04-09, 09:15 PM   #14
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The magic is that you need much stronger everything to do radial lacing. It's supposedly stiffer. Most shimano hubs are not rated for radial lacing, for example. DT makes hubs that are especially designed for radial lacing.
Sorry, but I can't seem to wrap my mind around that term. I've seen it being used many times on here. What exactly does "stiffer" mean?
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Old 10-04-09, 09:17 PM   #15
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Sorry, but I can't seem to wrap my mind around that term. I've seen it being used many times on here. What exactly does "stiffer" mean?
When you corner, your front wheel doesn't feel like a wet noodles, for example.
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Old 10-04-09, 09:19 PM   #16
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Do people like that feeling?
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Old 10-04-09, 09:27 PM   #17
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Do people like that feeling?
rider preference.
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Old 10-04-09, 09:40 PM   #18
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Do people like that feeling?
If you've ever raced your bike you'll appreciate a stiff feeling front wheel in a crit for example.
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Old 10-04-09, 09:42 PM   #19
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If you've ever raced your bike you'll appreciate a stiff feeling front wheel in a crit for example.
I meant the wet noodle feeling, but thanks for clearing that up!
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Old 10-04-09, 09:59 PM   #20
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I have never seen a 4x with a HF hub, and I would think the spokes might travel too far across the flange for any benifit. also a 4 cross was generally used for "loaded Touring" to create a stronger but softer wheel. what is wrong with the lacing?
Take a look at about half of the track sprinter wheels from the 70's and 80's. Many of them are 36 spoke 4 cross wheels, sometimes even tied and soldered.
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Old 10-04-09, 10:29 PM   #21
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The practice of tying and soldering started to prevent spokes from flying or protruding when they broke. Then the rumor spread that said that it makes the wheel stronger or stiffer, and people believed it. Now people believe this as the primary reason, when it isn't true at all.

I don't think radially spoked wheels have ever been proven to have any advantages, and we already know of many disadvantages. I advise against them.
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Old 10-04-09, 10:32 PM   #22
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spokes, hubs and rims are constructed better these days.

no absolute need for T&S or 4x-36h anymore.
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Old 10-04-09, 10:58 PM   #23
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The practice of tying and soldering started to prevent spokes from flying or protruding when they broke. Then the rumor spread that said that it makes the wheel stronger or stiffer, and people believed it. Now people believe this as the primary reason, when it isn't true at all.
Correct.


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I don't think radially spoked wheels have ever been proven to have any advantages, and we already know of many disadvantages. I advise against them.
What are the disadvantages for a front wheel application?
It does save weight... about 5g per wheel


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spokes, hubs and rims are constructed better these days.

no absolute need for T&S or 4x-36h anymore.
Agreed.
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Old 10-04-09, 11:02 PM   #24
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What are the disadvantages for a front wheel application?
It does save weight... about 5g per wheel
As mentioned above, you need stronger components. That's because things tend to break, such as hub flanges. What's the point, if there's no discernible gain?
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