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  1. #1
    Professional Genious
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    Did I install this bottom Bracket Right?

    Ok, after installing the bottom bracket (went to a sealed type) I am noticing a few differences. It seems like the left side (where the chain ring is) is further out, and the right side is in further. Now the FD will only go up to the middle gear.

    Anyway, here are some pics. Should I have still used the locking ring?

    This is on the 1999ish Giant Rincon.


    Thanks for any help.
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    Last edited by mwmcginn; 10-15-09 at 05:44 PM.
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  2. #2
    Elitist Troglodyte DMF's Avatar
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    Nowhere near enough info.

    New Posters - please READ THIS
    Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

    - Will Rogers

  3. #3
    Call me The Breeze I_bRAD's Avatar
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    not really enough info, but you probably have too long a BB. What's the measurement to the middle ring?

  4. #4
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwmcginn View Post
    Ok, after installing the bottom bracket (went to a sealed type) I am noticing a few differences. It seems like the left side (where the chain ring is) is further out, and the right side is in further. Now the FD will only go up to the middle gear.

    Anyway, here are some pics. Should I have still used the locking ring?


    Thanks for any help.
    What was the old spindle length? Asymmetrical loose ball bb? New bb spindle length? Match the taper?
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  5. #5
    Professional Genious
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    I took it to the LBS and had them match it up. It appeared to be the same size and it appeared to be symmetrical. But, I don't know that they are the best.

    Is it more likely that its a part problem then?
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  6. #6
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    1. Measure the Q-factor. The distance between the inner-surface of each crankarm where the pedal hole is located to the centre of the seat-tube. They should be identical on both sides.

    2. Then measure the distance from the centre of the middle chainring to the centre of the seat-post. Should be around 42-45mm.

    If those two measurements are within spec, all you need to do now is adjust the front-derailleur.

  7. #7
    cab horn
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    I have a hard time believing that's a new bb. Cartridge bottom brackets don't feature lockrings as such on the left side. That is typical of a fake cartridge bb, e.g has removal splines like a standard square taper shimano bb but design of a loose ball bb everywhere else. Remove the cranks and measure the spindles of the old and new one. And then make sure they're symmetrical while you're at it.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  8. #8
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
    1. Measure the Q-factor. The distance between the inner-surface of each crankarm where the pedal hole is located to the centre of the seat-tube. They should be identical on both sides.
    That is not correct.

    The Q factor of a bicycle is the distance (measured parallel to the bottom bracket axle) between the pedal attachment points on the crank arms.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  9. #9
    Professional Genious
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    I have a hard time believing that's a new bb. Cartridge bottom brackets don't feature lockrings as such on the left side. That is typical of a fake cartridge bb, e.g has removal splines like a standard square taper shimano bb but design of a loose ball bb everywhere else. Remove the cranks and measure the spindles of the old and new one. And then make sure they're symmetrical while you're at it.
    Yeah, that was one of my questions. Should I have reused the lock ring? It seems your answer is no.
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  10. #10
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwmcginn View Post
    Yeah, that was one of my questions. Should I have reused the lock ring? It seems your answer is no.
    You need to tell us what "sealed" bb you actually bought. If you got a modern shimano square taper cart, I guarantee you something is ****ed up if you can install the lockring like that. The plastic cup on the left side has a lip which prevents you from doing this.

    While we get that problem sorted out let's see if a full f.d adjust works: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=75
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  11. #11
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    That front derailleur is an e type. You need a special bottom bracket designed to work with that system. Its offset a few mm's to compensate for the derailleur mounting bracket.

  12. #12
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    That is not correct.

    The Q factor of a bicycle is the distance (measured parallel to the bottom bracket axle) between the pedal attachment points on the crank arms.
    Yeah, I used wrong term. Basically both pedals should be equi-distant to the seat-tube. If they're too different between the sides, you can end up with some knee and ankle issues.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    You need to tell us what "sealed" bb you actually bought. If you got a modern shimano square taper cart, I guarantee you something is ****ed up if you can install the lockring like that. The plastic cup on the left side has a lip which prevents you from doing this.

    While we get that problem sorted out let's see if a full f.d adjust works: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=75
    Ok, Thanks. I actually threaded the lock ring in before I tightened put the plastic cup in. I noticed the lip there.

    Its a shimano UN26

    117.5 68
    MM
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  14. #14
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home Grown View Post
    That front derailleur is an e type. You need a special bottom bracket designed to work with that system. Its offset a few mm's to compensate for the derailleur mounting bracket.
    Not correct.

    You can easily use a non e-type bb with spacers to get the correct chainline that would've been given if an actual e-type bb was used.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  15. #15
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwmcginn View Post
    Ok, Thanks. I actually threaded the lock ring in before I tightened put the plastic cup in. I noticed the lip there.

    Its a shimano UN26

    117.5 68

    What was on there before.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    Not correct.

    You can easily use a non e-type bb with spacers to get the correct chainline that would've been given if an actual e-type bb was used.
    It depends on the circumstances but I'm not going to argue all I was saying is he has the wrong part.

  17. #17
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home Grown View Post
    It depends on the circumstances but I'm not going to argue all I was saying is he has the wrong part.
    How do you even know this without seeing the old bb length?
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  18. #18
    Professional Genious
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    I wish I even knew what to tell you on what was there before. Its included in the pictures.

    I am looking at this now, after taking it back apart and thinking that the problem is on the drive end (that round black piece) Should I have taken it off?

    Again, thanks. You are helping me learn to do this for the first time, and I really appreciate it.
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    Last edited by mwmcginn; 10-15-09 at 06:34 PM.
    MM
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  19. #19
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwmcginn View Post
    I wish I even knew what to tell you on what was there before. Its included in the pictures.

    I am looking at this now, after taking it back apart and thinking that the problem is on the drive end (that round black piece) Should I have taken it off?

    Again, thanks.
    The easiest way to figure out if the bb length is correct is to install each bb, torque the crank to spec and measure the chainline (e.g what DMF said). If it's off by more than ~1mm you've got a problem. This method depends only accurate installation torque on the spindles.

    That black piece is to stop the crankarm from going too far on the spindle (e.g overtorquing). Inspect the crankarm when it is torqued down properly. If it is contacting that piece before achieving proper torque then you can get rid of it (this will manifest itself as a crank that does not spin freely - you'll need the chain detached to verify this).
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  20. #20
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    That seems to be the distance that I am off though, Like, if that piece werent there, I think I'd be ok. However, now that I have already tightened the crank arm down, I have no idea how to remove it (if I really should).
    MM
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  21. #21
    DRF aka Thrifty Bill wrk101's Avatar
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    Looks like the old bb spindle was quite a bit shorter. Get a decent micrometer and measure it, or have a shop do it for you.

    Unless the old bb is really messed up, I would clean it really good, install new loose ball bearings and grease, and install it. But first, I would take some good measurements on your bike as is.

    Doing your own work on a bike has the benefit that you can do such changes without running up a repair bill.

    UN26 is bottom of the line Shimano BB by the way (I have bought them before).

  22. #22
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    If the rt. arm is being stopped by the black ring, try taking it off. A properly greased and torqued crank can't go on too far.

  23. #23
    cab horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwmcginn View Post
    That seems to be the distance that I am off though, Like, if that piece werent there, I think I'd be ok. However, now that I have already tightened the crank arm down, I have no idea how to remove it (if I really should).
    Use any method you feel like, pliers, screwdriver just destroy it. That is if the piece is really preventing you from moving the crankarm a little further on as needed to make it work (without overtorquing the crank bolt).
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
    UN26 is bottom of the line Shimano BB by the way (I have bought them before).
    Yeah, they've been calling me Aaron Burr, the way I am droppin' the Hamiltons on this bike.
    MM
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by operator View Post
    Use any method you feel like, pliers, screwdriver just destroy it. That is if the piece is really preventing you from moving the crankarm a little further on as needed to make it work (without overtorquing the crank bolt).
    Yeah, I guess we are talking less than 20 bucks if it doesnt work out. I'll give it a shot.
    MM
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