15rms

I read in another forum of a guy that puts 2 tubes in a tire to puncture proof it. I believe he ment he was lining the tire with a uninflated tube? I am just wondering what is the best way to puncture proof a tire and not add rolling resistance?

Thanks

X-LinkedRider

Yes. You can use an old tube cut down to line the tire. Dont use the WHOLE tube, just like a 1 inch strip to wrap on the inside of the tire. Works great and costs next to nothing.

Iowegian

Mr Tuffy's work pretty well too, even on goatheads.

davidad

Kevlar belts and tire liners help. There is nothing that stops everything.

froze

You can't have both high puncture resistence and low rolling resistence. The best tire currently on the market for flat protection is the Specialize Armadillo All Condition Pro; with that tire you don't need a Mr Tuffy which does not work as well against goatheads as the Armadillo does, been there and done that having lived in the desert areas of California.

Kevlar belts don't work that great either. You see kevlar is a fiber and a sharp pointed object will seperate the fibers and penetrate with ease, thus kevlar belted tires failed miserably against goatheads where I use to live. But Mr Tuffy does work better then kevlar belts or kevlar liners.

Old tubes being cut to use as a liner is more useless then Kevlar belts since the tube will be penetrated by anything that gets past the tire. And besides if your going through all that hassle to cut a tube to make a liner why not just get a thorn resistent tube? Those tubes have a thicker section where it comes in contact with the tire.

So there's your choices, a thick thorn resistent tube that weighs 145grms with only so so protection; a kevlar liner that cost a lot and is only good for 1 or 2 tires but weighs only 65grms but gives only marginal better protection then a thorn tube; a Mr Tuffy that weighs 110 grams that will easily be better then any of the above or combination of any of the above.

So you buy a tire that's fairly light but has good kevlar protection like the Conti Gatorskin that weighs about 300grms, add a 90grm tube and a 110grm Mr Tuffy and the whole combo weighs about 500grms. Or you can buy a Armadillo that weighs 400grms add a tube for 90grms and your 10 grms less then adding all the other crap. And with the Armadillo you gain getting the toughest sidewall protection available while the Gatorskin sidewall is almost paper thin and subject to damage thus more flats. Plus the Armadillo will easily last at least a 1,000 miles more then the Gatorskin. So the Armadillo would be the all around better choice "IF" your looking for the ultimate in flat protection.

By the way, you mentioned rolling resistence. In 2004 Team Action Sports of Bakersfield California (where I lived for 7 years during the time they raced) shattered the eight year old Team Transcontinental record held by Kern Wheelmen also of Bakersfield (they are actually related). They were riding on Armadillos when they shattered that record! So much for too much rolling resistence.

fuzz2050

This is a crazy idea, and I don't encourage it, but I have seen it done.

drill a second valve hole 180 degrees from the first, and use two inner tubes at once. Keep one inflated, and the other limp on the inside. In the event you get a flat tire and can immediately tell what caused it (giant thorn sticking out of the tire) then you can simply remove the threat, deflate the first tube, and inflate the second.

froze

Huh**********? good golly molly, in the 1000 years I've been cycling I've never seen that.

Al1943

Whatever you do including all of the above suggestions will increase rolling resistance.
Analyze each flat until you know exactly what caused it and then don't do that. Most flats can be avoided.

Al

coachgeorge

What about using a 1" strip of Duct Tape? The stuff is very resistant to punctures, can't weigh that much etc.
Just a thought.

DannoXYZ 

This was very common for mountain-bikers, especially in off-road races where there isn't neutral-support. To save time on changing flats, they would just pump up the 2nd tube when they got a flat.

freako

So let's see now, I'm riding down the road and have a flat, upon close CSI type of investagation I find a thin piece of steel that probably came from a steel belted tire that was improperly aligned causing the steel belt to eventually come through the rubber, has penetrated my tire. Now I know the problem I can avoid it in the future...right? or what about thin sliver of glass or thorns or? I know, I analyzed my flats and determined that riding a bike causes flats thus I'll stop riding and that will avoid flats. What a dumb ass response...next one please.

Don't do any of the above suggestions and your rolling resistence will increase dramatically when you try to ride on flat tires and spend time fixing them. I remember the one poster mentioned the RAAM race, I also remember from previous posts that they won due to not getting any flats. That goes back to rolling resistence now doesn't it.

Oh, and it's analyze not analize.

Knale

I don't care for liners... That being said... As a commuter, the best combination I have found to avoid flats is the Specialized Armadillo All Condition Pro along with a thorn resistant tube. It is typical for me to go at least a year on that combination without a flat. The Armadillo's are probably the longest wearing tire I have used.

DannoXYZ 

Flats don't "just happen". There are many different causes of flats and different pro-active measures to avoid them. We don't even know what kind if rider the OP is or what kind of flats he's been getting. New riders in their first 2-3 years tend to have A LOT more flats than more experienced riders of 10-years+ experience. The road-debris and obstacles are the same for everyone, what's the difference? It's learning what actually causes flats and taking steps BEFORE the flat "just happens".

1. pinched flats are caused by the tyre collapsing enough to have the rim-edge cut the tube. This can be due to an impact with a pothole, big rocks, sharp kerbs, etc. You'll want to have sufficient tyre-pressure to avoid pinching the tube under most impacts. A 15% sink-rate is a good starting point for most people. Also avoid potholes, big rocks, sharp kerbs, etc. Most causes of pinched flats can be seen and ridden around.

2. sharp edges on the rim is a common source of flats; particularly rubber rim-strips. Again, this is an area where analyzing the punctured tube will give clues on how to avoid future flats of the same kind. There's nothing that can substitube for Velox tape.

4. punctures are another source of flats. However, running over glass, thorns, metal-shards typically never cause an immediate flat. The debris has to spin around the tyre numerous times with your body-weight pushing on it over and over again until it's finally penetrated your tyre and tube. More experienced riders can recognize the sound of running over such flat-inducing debris and are quick to rub it off their tyres immediately. To avoid these kinds of flats, you'll want to have tyres with tough casing; even kevlar reinforced or with a kevlar belt under the tread. Then anything you can do to add penetration depth would help, such as tyre-liners and thorn-resistant tubes. Those two alone will add about 4-5mm of extra distance that the thorns or glass must penetrate before it compromises your tube. That gives you A LOT more time to detect the object and scrape it off your tyre.


So to answer the OP's question, there's NOTHING that'll provide extra puncture resistance without increasing rolling-resistance (that's over-rated anyway). Look for actual tests by Jobst Brandt where he compared rolling-resistance for different tyre types at different pressures. The minimal differences simply isn't a factor. You're much better off doing whatever you can to avoid the flats in the 1st place, because sitting on the side of the road and fixing a flat will always cost you way, way more than any time-savings you'd get from lower rolling-resistance.

BTW - a 2nd tube is only to save time in getting back on the road AFTER you've gotten a flat. Best to not get it in the 1st place.

martinrjensen

They do make a solid tire. A guy at work has one because he was paranoid of getting a flat and he rides to work all winter. On the website, they say you can get the tires in different hardnesses. I don't know what this guy bought but I saw the bike , and picked up the tire and bounced it to see how much give there was in it. Nothing, nada. that ride must have been absolutely awful. I, personally would not acept that trade off at getting a flat in a tire. where I live good caution can prevent 95% or greater of flats. It's been a couple years since I have had one now. Course now I am running Hutchinson tubless with sealant inside so it's pretty unlikely I will get a normal flat anyway.

prathmann

Yes, as you note the effectiveness of this method depends on the source of the flat being gone before you inflate the second tube. Doesn't work well if you still have a glass sliver inside the tire.

Another method I heard of for quick flat fixes applies to tubular tires - and only if you're willing to throw away the flat tire. Have the spare tire strapped to your seat stay with one end of it around the rear axle. When you get a flat you rip the old tire off the rim and cut it with a knife to remove it. Unstrap the spare from the seatstay and you can mount it on the rim without needing to ever remove the wheel from the bike. I've never seen anyone use this method but it was described to me by an old guy in a bar when we had stopped in while on a bike tour. He said he had been a SF bike messenger and used this arrangement to speed up tire changes back when tubular tires were a lot cheaper.

froze

I'm not sure where to begin. More experience riders sure will learn how to prevent pinch flats and sharp rim edges (at least hopefully, I but I've known a few who've been riding for more then 10 years and still have those issues!). While not speaking for Freako, I don't "think" he was talking about those but rather debris; but punctures caused by debris isn't as easy as you say. Sure if you hear something big enough to make a noise you could probably scrape it off with your hand before penetration, though some thorns especially goatheads with their multiable angled thorns will penetrate most of the time on the first roll causing a flat before you can scrape, though I've been able to scrape some off before penetration. But most flats are cause by very small bits of wire (as Freako mentioned) shredded off of steel belted tires, or very small slivers of glass, either will make no noise whatsoever until you hear the hiss.

I agree with you about the tires. Yes a thicker tire like the Armadillos is your primary defense if you really trashy roads littered with goatheads and trash like the high desert of California; others areas like where I live now in Indiana the Armadillo is an overkill. With the Armadillo using a thicker tube and/or a tire liner isn't necessary, in fact I used racing tubes and my flats went to almost zero over a year vs 4 or 5 a week with other tires in the desert. Otherwise in trashy areas MTB tires are the best because they have very thick tires that goatheads can't penetrate deep enough to flatten.

The Brandt test is so outdated it's nuts to even quote it, I believe the tests were in done in the early 90's! And according to his test the Advocet tire won, however according to Continental tests done about 8 years ago, the Deda Tre Giro d'Italis won but Advocet wasn't even tested. Neither of those tires offer anything in the way of puncture resistence, they were pure ultralight racing tires. Does anyone even ride on Advocet anymore?

And yes, Freako remembered what I've said before in past post concerning the RAAM race winners I spoke of earlier in this post. Their thought was that if they could eliminate most flats that they could stand a chance to win it, and win it they did in record time on Armadillos. It doesn't seem that rolling resistence bothered them the least bit. So your right when you said: "You're much better off doing whatever you can to avoid the flats in the 1st place, because sitting on the side of the road and fixing a flat will always cost you way, way more than any time-savings you'd get from lower rolling-resistance."

Sci-Fi

What is the definition of "rolling resistance" to the OP and how much is too much? Whatever you do for puncture resistance, you are adding weight to the equation. Buying a tire with a high silica content will lower rolling resistance a bit at the expense of grip and wet weather performance, but can't overcome the weight added (liners and/or heavy duty tires and tubes). Once you get rolling, I doubt you'll notice much of a difference 'on the flats'.

You have to decide whether or not additional puncture protection is worth it or not. In goathead country, many go all out with armadillos, marathon plus, or touring plus tires, add tire liners, and slime filled HD tubes. Weight is secondary to getting where you want/need to go w/o having to deal with flats a lot. Some don't like the way tire liners move inside of the tire and the possible wear on their tubes (causing a flat) and insert their tire liners inside of a tube (new or used). Sidewall punctures bypass most puncture resistant strategies, so there's no ideal solution. The solid inserts/tires are very rough riding, hard to install and remove, and imho, speed limited in turns...they're ok for wheelchair applications.

fuzz2050

Damn, that's pretty hardcore. Of course it also involves slicing open a tubular tire. I still like it though.

meb

The tire liners reduce rolling resistance on pavement and increase tire durability. But boy do the create a rough ride. The tire liner takes out the tire flex which contributes to rolling resistance. You feel every little bump. But if reliable low resistance cycling is what your after, get some Mr. Tuffys.

Cadfael

Why not just put the punctured tire under the seat stay where the replacement was... and then fix it later?

Metzinger

Obviously not hardcore enough.
The last time I had a rear wheel flat, I took me all of about one second to get the rear wheel off.
Maybe ten to get it back on once I'd changed the tube.
Does sound like a good bar conversation, though.

JiveTurkey

Wouldn't this work just as well for a tube?

sknhgy 

Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires. Heavy as a brick but I've never had a flat with them on. I do stay away from places with sand burrs, though.

danarnold

Well... I know what doesn't work.

My new bike came with 700 x 23 Vittoria Diamante Pro tires and Cheng Shin 'super thin' tubes.

In successive days I flatted first the rear, then the front. The punctures were tiny, never found the thorn or any mark on the tires. The second hole was so small I couldn't find it until I pumped the tire up to 1.5" and held it under water. These tubes are not worth patching. In the Thornville I live in, I'm going with thicker tubes for a start, but may have to go to Armadillos. BTW many fewer flats on the street than the bike paths. Car sweeping effect I assume.

Al1943

That sounds like something a tire liner sales rep would say.

I consider weight as part of the rolling resistance because additional energy is needed to accelerate the extra weight or to climb a hill. The additional weight will negatively offset any savings from reducing flex.