tsathoggua

Um, I've a pair of SSCs which I am planning on using with ceramic Open Pros. What pads would I need? I've asked around and it seems "normal" pads would be fine, too, but I'd think pads designed for ceramic braking surfaces would work better.

Oh, and do SSCs use Campagnolo or Shimano type pads? I've really no idea...

tsathoggua

*bump*

Sixty Fiver

So I am sitting here at my shop looking at quite a few of my bikes...

My long bike hits the curb at 50 pounds and typically carries loads of 50 plus pounds and my 145 pounds and will stop on a dime... it has a Shimano V brake in the rear and a Shimano canti up front with Kool Stop salmon pads fitted to both brakes. A well set up canti offers as much stopping power as a good v brake... my commutourer uses XTR cantis which are probably the finest cantilever brakes ever made and it too has incredible stopping power...it needs this as it oftencarries a lot of extra weight.

The mountain bike is set up for XC riding and I swapped out the disc wheels for lighter hand builts and am using XT dual pivot V brakes with Kool Stops and Avid levers... stopping is not an issue in any conditions.

My Kuwahara Cascade (touring bike) uses Shimano brakes... it has a canti up front and a U brake in the rear which has frightening stopping power.

The levers also play a significant role as some are better than others... aero road levers offer better mechanical advantage and good ones can turn good brakes into great brakes. The drop bar fixed gear mtb and the Kuwahara Cascade use aero levers and the fixed mtb has a singular Shimano canti with Mauthauser pads (same as Kool Stops) and again... stops on a dime and gives back change.

Most brakes are pretty decent and it is easier to pick out the dogs like the Campy Deltas and just about every long reach side pull ever made... you have to try stopping a Raleigh Twenty in the rain to discover how bad brakes can be.

The old steel side pull brakes on many old Schwinns and Raleighs work remarkably well because despite their reach, these steel brakes are very stiff and have little flex... they also weigh a ton.

So basically...if you know what you are doing and match the right parts you can get excellent braking from many different types of brakes... some are beyond help (R20 brakes) and need to be replaced.

noglider 

That's an excellent overview. I'm still resisting the ownership of V-brakes, for no rational reason. Cantilevers are my favorite. I have a pair on my Surly Cross Check.

I recently bought a Raleigh Twenty. Any advice for brake replacement?

Road Fan

Hey, I'm an engineer and I don't waste bandwidth spewing about some of the blather and bull that comes off the keyboards of "professional" mechanics, hence bolstering my poor self image. I also try not to twist things, it's hard enough keeping it simple and getting it right.

Plus, in this case Jobst's physics argument is very simple and exactly right, at least in terms of the disk force required. I don't know why he was off track about the required hand force, though. Maybe he never thought through the leverage factors that are or could be present in the system, for the non--hydraulic links.

In any case I agree with Tom's question: what changed, or what was the innovation?

bikinfool

Why did there have to be an innovation...Jobst just may not have done his homework well. In terms of mechanical disc brakes the innovation I suppose was Avid's use of the bearings in the caliper, but to me more likely it's just that no one had bothered to produce a decent mechanical disc brake before that as there wasn't much of a market at that point. I assume hydraulic brakes were available but too heavy for bicycles until the market had people focus on developing lighter systems. Just my .02.

Oh, and I forgot about what is likely the most powerful rim brake available, the Magura HS33...

noglider 

True, it may have taken time for someone to be motivated to make it. In that case, what changed that led to a new motivation to create it?

DMF 

Nothing.


I mean, if you're really interested, ask Jobst.

noglider 

Something had to have changed. But I guess I will ask Jobst.

well biked

Ask Jobst? He'll talk in circles until your head's spinning, and by then you'll have forgotten what you asked him. His writings do make a good sleep aid, however.

The bottom line is that the bicycling industry pushes itself to introduce new products, and sometimes these products are actually quite innovative and good. Disc brakes, particularly for mountain biking, are one of these products. And in the grand scheme of things, the idea of disc brakes that are capable of stopping a bicycle very well, are light weight enough to be practical, and affordable enough to be marketable isn't exactly an earth shattering breakthrough in my opinion. They're cool, but not earth shattering. That's my take on it-

bikinfool

Really? WTF does he know about disc brakes anyways?

operator

So am I.

I'm not debating his physics. Chill.