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Old 12-13-09, 02:59 PM   #1
chico1st
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1963 Wheel

I have SA 3 speed wheel from 1963 which I would like to true. The wheel looks like it hasnt been touched in a long time and the metal has sort of a white powdery look.
Before I go about trueing it I thought it would be good to lube the nipples so i dont strip them. I also know that ammonia removes corrosion from aluminum and penetrating oil removes it from steel.

What would you expect nipples/spokes from this era to be made of? Is my plan of lubing with ammonia/penetrating oil good?

Anything else I should look out for?

If I should be using penetrating oil does anyone suggest a brand or are they all the same?
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Old 12-13-09, 03:10 PM   #2
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I doubt there is aluminum in the system. Spoke nipples are rarely made of aluminum except as a lightweight-for-racing-bikes thing. You hopefully have steel spokes and brass nipples. Maybe something other than brass. Your spokes are likely galvanized steel.
Dripping thin penetrating oil on the nipple/spoke joint (from either, and perhaps both, sides) before starting to true the wheel, is prudent. Then give it some time to penetrate before you start working.
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Old 12-13-09, 03:31 PM   #3
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The spokes are likely to be galvanized steel, dunno about the nipples.
The nipples on my Dawes that still has galvanized spokes appear to be chrome plated brass.
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Old 12-13-09, 04:02 PM   #4
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Dripping thin penetrating oil on the nipple/spoke joint (from either, and perhaps both, sides) before starting to true the wheel, is prudent. Then give it some time to penetrate before you start working.
Does WD40 cut it for penetrating oil?
How long do I have to wait?
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Old 12-13-09, 04:10 PM   #5
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If the spokes are galvanized, then the white powder is likely zinc oxide - harmless. Get a little Brillo-pad type animals and soap and see it if comes off easily. But I'd just leave it i place. It forms a protective barrier against further oxidation.

And I'd drizzle something like PB-blaster into the spoke-nipple interface and let it work itself in for 24 hours. This should reduce the possibility of stripping the threads.

A 1963 SA-hubbed wheel you say? Sounds nice! Got any pictures? I love old vintage 3-speed bikes. They can, with a bit of care, last forever.
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Old 12-13-09, 04:38 PM   #6
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Does WD40 cut it for penetrating oil?
How long do I have to wait?
Probably okay. I think kerosene is the main degreasing agent in WD-40. I prefer something I can drop on, rather than spray on, and all the WD-40 I've seen comes in spray-cans. But it'll work fine if you don't mind cleaning up reflected spray.
I don't think you need to give it 24 hours, but it can't hurt.
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Old 12-13-09, 06:42 PM   #7
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Hmmm, so I have never seen a 3-speed in operation before but i am very confused as to whether or not it is working properly.
It seems to 'free-wheel' fine but when I shift I dont notice any difference in the operation.
I have the wheel clamped in a trueing stand and am turning it by twisting the sprocket (??... the thing with teeth)
When i turn it one way it free wheels and when i turn it the other way it just seems to lock and make the wheel turn. Now when I changed gears I expected the sprocket to rotate at a different speed relative to the wheel but it didnt seem to be so.

How do i know if its working ok?
I will post a video if this gets complicated.

Also, sure I can post pics at some point
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Old 12-13-09, 06:48 PM   #8
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How are you changing gears? A spoke screwed into the hub? You should be able to see the difference in rotation when it shifts. You have to hold the shifter in the position you want, you can't just shift it and have it stay there.
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Old 12-13-09, 09:30 PM   #9
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Shouldn't you use something like PB blaster? WD-40 isn't penetrating..
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Old 12-13-09, 10:00 PM   #10
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Shouldn't you use something like PB blaster? WD-40 isn't penetrating..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetrating_oil
Regardless I used Professional Penetrating Oil... it must be good

Quote:
How are you changing gears? A spoke screwed into the hub? You should be able to see the difference in rotation when it shifts. You have to hold the shifter in the position you want, you can't just shift it and have it stay there.
I am changing gears using that little chain that comes out of the hub but didnt know I had to hold it... it makes sense. That explains the clunking noises I heard but saw no change in gear ratio.
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Old 12-14-09, 12:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by chico1st View Post
Hmmm, so I have never seen a 3-speed in operation before but i am very confused as to whether or not it is working properly.
It seems to 'free-wheel' fine but when I shift I dont notice any difference in the operation.
I have the wheel clamped in a trueing stand and am turning it by twisting the sprocket (??... the thing with teeth)
When i turn it one way it free wheels and when i turn it the other way it just seems to lock and make the wheel turn. Now when I changed gears I expected the sprocket to rotate at a different speed relative to the wheel but it didnt seem to be so.

How do i know if its working ok?
I will post a video if this gets complicated.

Also, sure I can post pics at some point

If the wheel is in a truing stand, you'll just turn the hub over in the stand. In order to see the gears in operation, the axle must be held stationary. You're probably better off putting the wheel back in the bike and reconnecting the cable in order to play with it. Here's a good place to start: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/adj.html
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Old 12-14-09, 12:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by chico1st View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetrating_oil
Regardless I used Professional Penetrating Oil... it must be good
When I worked at an auto repair shop, everyone always said that wd-40 wasn't penetrating.. maybe they're wrong. Either way, I've always had bad luck with wd-40, whatever you have will probably work better
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Old 12-14-09, 01:20 PM   #13
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yepp, fine tuning the cable tension (with the screw cable joint) is the secret of 3 speed....
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Old 12-14-09, 02:02 PM   #14
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Wow thats really cool, I turned the wheel while holding the shift cable and it worked... well I could only get 2 different gears but I hadn't tried to adjust the cable tension yet since I hadnt read what to do yet.
Actually funny story, I realized I thought you would just pull the chain and the gear would stay changed because the only other device I know with a chain pully is the lightbulb in my closet and you dont have to hold that chain to keep it on I associated them together a little too much

One thing I have noticed is that in reference to this manual.
http://vancruisers.ca/tech/manuals/s...ls/aw.pdf/view

I dont have piece #41 the serrated lockwasher slot (Picture from pdf below)


I have something which seems like its opposite... the peice that I have there has to slot arms running along the axle... i dont really know what they are for :S
I tried to take a picture but you cant really see it

Is this a problem?... does anyone know what im talking about?
I cant figure out what the slot part is supposed to do

And this is the other side if you are curious:

I have two ~1963 3-speed wheels this is the rusty one i decided i would work on first in case i screw something up.
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Old 12-14-09, 02:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ScottNotBombs View Post
When I worked at an auto repair shop, everyone always said that wd-40 wasn't penetrating.. maybe they're wrong. Either way, I've always had bad luck with wd-40, whatever you have will probably work better
I've always assumed when things have the world professional in their name they cant be trusted. Like naming a burger 100% real beef.
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Old 12-14-09, 02:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by chico1st View Post
Wow thats really cool, I turned the wheel while holding the shift cable and it worked... well I could only get 2 different gears but I hadn't tried to adjust the cable tension yet since I hadnt read what to do yet.
Actually funny story, I realized I thought you would just pull the chain and the gear would stay changed because the only other device I know with a chain pully is the lightbulb in my closet and you dont have to hold that chain to keep it on I associated them together a little too much

One thing I have noticed is that in reference to this manual.
http://vancruisers.ca/tech/manuals/s...ls/aw.pdf/view

I dont have piece #41 the serrated lockwasher slot (Picture from pdf below)


I have something which seems like its opposite... the peice that I have there has to slot arms running along the axle... i dont really know what they are for :S
I tried to take a picture but you cant really see it

Is this a problem?... does anyone know what im talking about?
I cant figure out what the slot part is supposed to do

And this is the other side if you are curious:

I have two ~1963 3-speed wheels this is the rusty one i decided i would work on first in case i screw something up.
I would advise you not to attempt to true that wheel unless it's significantly out. Wheels like that tend to like to break spokes on truing given it's crappy condition from the pictures. You don't really learn anything by attempting to true a wheel which probably has seized/extremely hard to turn nipples.
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Old 12-14-09, 02:21 PM   #17
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Congratulations on entering the 3 speed cult! The washer you're talking about is an anti-rotation washer - because the wheel is internally geared, it needs something to keep the whole axle from rotating in the dropouts, and, as such, it's completely necessary. Harris Cyclery has the best selection of 3 speed parts I've found, but you might find a crusty bike dude in your neighborhood who will just give you one. They tend to collect 3 spd hubs.

As far as noticing the gear change, it's totally not obvious until in the frame - the only thing that changes is how often the wheel rotates relative to the cog.

When I true up these wheels, I hit all nipples and spoke holes with regular oil (auto, Triflow, whatever) the day before and let it sit. If this doesn't work, you'll know it, as you'll start snapping spokes as you go around. If that's the case, you can try replacing the ones that die, but it's a little dicey as to how well the wheel will hold up if it's up to tension.
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Old 12-14-09, 02:30 PM   #18
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I would advise you not to attempt to true that wheel unless it's significantly out. Wheels like that tend to like to break spokes on truing given it's crappy condition from the pictures. You don't really learn anything by attempting to true a wheel which probably has seized/extremely hard to turn nipples.
After leaving that penetrating oil on the nipples for ~20 hours I just twisted one of the nipples and it seemed to come fairly easily... creaky but not too bad... I dont plan to true anymore than necessary.
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Old 12-14-09, 02:43 PM   #19
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because the wheel is internally geared, it needs something to keep the whole axle from rotating in the dropouts, and, as such, it's completely necessary.
Oh so those arms are supposed to go through holes in the dropouts?
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Old 12-14-09, 04:22 PM   #20
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I've always assumed when things have the world professional in their name they cant be trusted. Like naming a burger 100% real beef.
Haha, never thought about that. I ride a fuji proffesional
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Old 12-14-09, 06:41 PM   #21
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Oh so those arms are supposed to go through holes in the dropouts?
No, the axle has flats milled on it and the washer is shaped to fit over these flats to prevent it from rotating on the axle. The tabs on the washer, in turn, sit in the dropout slot and thus prevent the axle from rotating in the dropout.
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Old 12-14-09, 07:13 PM   #22
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Once (if?) you get it trued up, put it on the bike and see how it sounds. It'll probably need some oil. Some people put a bunch of WD40 in there and follow with oil. I just like to fill it up with oil and let it hose itself out. It's not a clean process, but it's easier than disassembling to clean. Which I've done. It's fun, but time-consuming.
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