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Old 12-16-09, 10:41 PM   #1
chummdizzle
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Wheel shuddering while braking, casued by bearing play or rim??

I recently built up a pair of American classic hubs (Micro 58 front, 205 rear) to some Kinlin XR-300 rims.

Almost immediately after using the wheels the front wheel started to shudder while braking. I checked the wheel and made sure it was true (it is very true). I also tried another front brake, same problem.

I noticed that there was a small amount of play in the bearings. I understand that it is common for the AC Micro 58 to develop bearing play. I'm going to get another set of bearings, they are cheap and easy to install.

I was wondering if the bearing play is responsible for the shuddering, or is it a problem with the braking surface of the rim? I had a Mavic Ksyrium equipe front wheel that developed some bearing play, but it never shuddered like this wheel does.
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Old 12-16-09, 10:43 PM   #2
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I wouuld clean the rims and the pads to begin with. Does it do this with another wheel?
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Old 12-16-09, 10:47 PM   #3
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I wouuld clean the rims and the pads to begin with. Does it do this with another wheel?
Forgot to mention that it does not do it with other wheels. I'm currently using a Xero front wheel from my rain bike, and there is no shuddering.

What is the best way to clean the rim?
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Old 12-16-09, 10:53 PM   #4
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I recently built up a pair of American classic hubs (Micro 58 front, 205 rear) to some Kinlin XR-300 rims.
What kind of brake pads are you using? I had a terrible shuddering/squealing problem when I used Kool Stop salmon-color pads on new rims (two different bikes, too). The shuddering & squealing went away when I put in Kool-Stop black pads, and was not there once the rims were smoothed out and I put the salmon pads back in. A few weeks in rainy weather was all it took to wear in the rims.
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Old 12-16-09, 10:53 PM   #5
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Forgot to mention that it does not do it with other wheels. I'm currently using a Xero front wheel from my rain bike, and there is no shuddering.

What is the best way to clean the rim?
Steel wool and a mild detergent or rubbing alcohol.
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Old 12-16-09, 11:00 PM   #6
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What kind of brake pads are you using? I had a terrible shuddering/squealing problem when I used Kool Stop salmon-color pads on new rims (two different bikes, too). The shuddering & squealing went away when I put in Kool-Stop black pads, and was not there once the rims were smoothed out and I put the salmon pads back in. A few weeks in rainy weather was all it took to wear in the rims.
The first set are the black pads that came with my Zero Gravity's (not sure exactly what they are), second brake has black kool stops. I stopped using the wheel after the first ride on the second brakes. I just thought it was unnecessary stress on my fork.

I will try cleaning them up as operator suggested, and I'm going to replace the bearings anyway (only costs about $15 for replacements) and try the wheel again.
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Old 12-16-09, 11:01 PM   #7
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Steel wool and a mild detergent or rubbing alcohol.
Thanks, I'll give it a shot
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Old 12-17-09, 03:28 AM   #8
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Sand the pads off and make sure there are no impregnated particles. Give the braking surface of the rims a quick wipe-down. Finally, cut some little pieces of a Scotch-Brite sponge and open up the brakes a bit via the adjusters and jam the mini-sponges in between the pads and the rim. Take the bike for a low speed spin in a safe area and apply the brakes, letting the Scotch-Brite mini-sponges do a quick re-machining of the sidewalls.

Also check to make sure the rim isn't "fatter" anywhere, which could indicate an imminent rim failure.
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Old 12-17-09, 10:03 AM   #9
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I'm not sure what you mean by shuttering, but if your braking is pulsing like my XR200's do then there's nothing you can do about it. I tried it all, and the my rear wheel still has uneven braking. Luckily the front is fine.
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Old 12-17-09, 11:13 AM   #10
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Also check to make sure the rim isn't "fatter" anywhere, which could indicate an imminent rim failure.
It's a new rim.

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I'm not sure what you mean by shuttering, but if your braking is pulsing like my XR200's do then there's nothing you can do about it. I tried it all, and the my rear wheel still has uneven braking. Luckily the front is fine.
Those cheap rims preform pretty well eh?
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Old 12-17-09, 12:01 PM   #11
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Those cheap rims preform pretty well eh?
You're right, $35 is cheap. I can live with a little brake pulse. It's only felt when coming to a stop.
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Old 12-17-09, 01:24 PM   #12
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one other possible solution is to add some toe-in to the brake pads (some brakes are designed to make this adjustment possible, some aren't.)
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Old 12-17-09, 01:44 PM   #13
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shuddering is caused by the fork flexing back and forth when the brake pads 'catch and release' the rim.

you know how you can have squeaky clean glass when you rub it with your finger?
same concept for rims and the pads, they're too clean.
ride them through some slop, that'll fix the problem.

but after you adjust the brakes properly.
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Old 12-18-09, 12:37 PM   #14
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Also check to make sure the rim isn't "fatter" anywhere, which could indicate an imminent rim failure.
yeah, pull out some vernier calipers and measure the rim-width. Easy way is to push the caliper closed with your thumb and slide them around the rim. The wider sections that grab the pads will be obvious as you won't be able to slide the caliper past that spot. Cheap rims can be like this brand new off the shelf. Old rims that's been hammered by potholes can have some expanded sections. too. And worn-out lightweight rims start to bulge as the sides are thinned out by the brake pads.
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Old 12-18-09, 03:12 PM   #15
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You're right, $35 is cheap. I can live with a little brake pulse. It's only felt when coming to a stop.
You can buy Alex DA22's for that price that don't do that. Builds up great as well.
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