Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-04-10, 04:00 PM   #1
Pukeskywalker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Pukeskywalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bikes: '93 Cannondale T-1000, '03 Cannondale R800
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Building a indestructable wheelset with 700x23 tires? 36h?

I want to build a wheelset that is extremely strong, but also able to take 700x23 tires safely.

I'm 180 lbs and will use the bike for commuting in philly. It needs to be fast for dodging cars but strong enough to plow through all of the disintegrating roads

I was thinking 36 spokes, 105 hubs, and velocity dyads... but I think the dyads might be too wide for what I'm going for.

Any advice / rim suggestions?
Pukeskywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 04:01 PM   #2
10 Wheels
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Bikes: 2010 Expedition, 03 GTO
Posts: 30,096
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
http://www.everybicycletire.com/Shop...etfilters=true
__________________
[SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI
10 Wheels is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 04:14 PM   #3
rydaddy
Type 1 Racer
 
rydaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Davis, CA
Bikes: A dozen or so.
Posts: 2,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
How much do you weigh? Generally, a deeper rim will be stronger. The larger bending resistance of the rim helps distribute loads to more spokes. Velocity Deep V's, Kinlin XR-300's, DT RR1.2's, and Mavic CXP-33's come to mind.

BTW, unless you weigh 250+ or are loading the bike up, 32 spokes should do.
rydaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 04:16 PM   #4
jasonrobo02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Diego
Bikes: 2006 Bianchi 928 Record and 2002 Bianchi Axis 1x9
Posts: 204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You could go with the Mavic CXP33 rims and your choice of hubs with a 32h front and 36h rear. The cxp33 is a good rim at an affordable price and I have owned a few pairs of wheels with cxp33 rims. You might want to check out bicyclewheelwarehouse.com as they have good prices and since you're not in CA, you won't have to pay sales tax.

Or you can just go with the Velocity DeepV as that is what a bunch of fixie guys use because they look cool are are supposedly very durable. I have never used them, so I'm just relaying what I've heard from others.
jasonrobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 04:47 PM   #5
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonrobo02 View Post
You could go with the Mavic CXP33 rims and your choice of hubs with a 32h front and 36h rear. The cxp33 is a good rim at an affordable price and I have owned a few pairs of wheels with cxp33 rims.
At 180 lbs (as the OP has said) I think this would be a good choice. I would further recommend Ultegra hubs and DT Swiss Competition spokes (2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0 double butted) is a 3-cross pattern. The Velocity Deep V rims are also strong.
Kevlar reinforced tires would add puncture protection but the extra weight at the outer radius would also reduce acceleration.

Al

Last edited by Al1943; 01-04-10 at 04:50 PM.
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 04:50 PM   #6
rydaddy
Type 1 Racer
 
rydaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Davis, CA
Bikes: A dozen or so.
Posts: 2,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
At 180 lbs (as the OP has said) I think this would be a good choice. I would further recommend Ultegra hubs and DT Swiss Competition spokes (2.0 - 1.8 - 2.0 double butted) is a 3-cross pattern. The Velocity Deep V rims are also strong.

Al
Oops. Don't know how I missed that.

+1 to DT Comps.
rydaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 04:56 PM   #7
jasonrobo02
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Diego
Bikes: 2006 Bianchi 928 Record and 2002 Bianchi Axis 1x9
Posts: 204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
Kevlar reinforced tires would add puncture protection but the extra weight at the outer radius would also reduce acceleration.
I agree. I ride Continental Gatorskins and they have offered me excellent puncture protection with minimal weight gain. I would suggest these tires for the OP as opposed to the Specialized Armadillos which are often recommended but weight almost twice as much.
jasonrobo02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 05:01 PM   #8
clydeosaur
Senior Member
 
clydeosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central PA
Bikes: Cannondale Six5, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR & old Hard Rock
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm running the Mavics (CXP 33's) hand built on my stock 32 spoke hubs and have had good luck. I way 235.
clydeosaur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 05:33 PM   #9
masi61
Senior Member
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Posts: 1,139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
I weigh 265 and run DT Swiss RR 1.1 36 hole rims with Dura Ace 7700 36 hole front and rear. The spokes are DT Swiss stainless steel butted with brass nipples. The front is laced 2 cross, the rear is laced 3 cross. The wheels were tensioned and prestressed, then again tension and stress relieved after I had ridden about 500 miles. These rims are accurate to a level of perfection as far as lateral/radial runout - I mean, I didn't measure it or anything but they spin perfect. Continental GP4000's, Ultra Gatorskins or Michelin Krylion Carbons in 700x23 would not only be fast, but I suspect very, very durable.
masi61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 06:16 PM   #10
achoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've got a set of CXP-33s laced to Ultegra hubs, both 36 hole, 3-cross, 14ga spokes, brass nipples. I started riding on them when I was 240 or 250 pounds back over the summer. A deer wiped me out by running right into my front wheel when I was doing 25 mph on them in September.

They're still dead true.

I got them from Colorado Cyclist. I'd bought from them in the past and for my return to serious cycling wanted a totally bombproof set of wheels from someone I had dealt with in the past. I probably could have gotten them cheaper, but saving a few $$ wasn't at the top of my priority list.

I've since dropped to 210 lbs or so, and I'm currently riding Neuvations and they're a lot lighter. I can definitely feel the heavier weight of the Mavic rims when I accelerate or climb, but those Mavics are definitely bombproof.
achoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 08:59 PM   #11
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50
Posts: 9,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by achoo View Post
I've got a set of CXP-33s laced to Ultegra hubs, both 36 hole, 3-cross, 14ga spokes, brass nipples. I started riding on them when I was 240 or 250 pounds back over the summer. A deer wiped me out by running right into my front wheel when I was doing 25 mph on them in September.

They're still dead
How about the deer?
Al1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 09:12 PM   #12
achoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
How about the deer?
No clue. By the time I peeled myself off the ground, it was gone.
achoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 09:32 PM   #13
AndrewP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Montreal
Bikes: Peugeot Hybrid, Minelli Hybrid
Posts: 6,521
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Veocity Dyad 32 spoke (14/15/14) with 25 mm Gatorskins
AndrewP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 09:39 PM   #14
wesmamyke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
36 hole Mavic open pro is pretty sturdy. I wouldn't worry about rim width. I used to run Mavic MA40 rims and 23c tires, they end up looking too narrow mounted up but it's never a problem.

I would even say they tend to handle better and resist pinch flats more with the wider rim. No experience with the Velocity dyads but plenty of people run Velocity rims with no issues.
wesmamyke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 09:44 PM   #15
Mr. Fly
Senior Member
 
Mr. Fly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Silicon Valley, CA.
Bikes:
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is there any reason you need to use a 700x23c tire? Narrow tires != faster, especially when you have to "plow through all of the disintegrating roads".
Mr. Fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 09:55 PM   #16
chico1st
30mi/day commuter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 794
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
-I have been through a lot trying to keep my wheels invincible. I found that gatorskins/armadillos didnt help compared to normal tires.
-Tire liners are by far the most cost efficient way to keep them protected (15$ for both wheels and dont need replacing)
-Upgrading tire size small amounts makes nedgligible difference (small amounts 700x20-28 change) but going to larger tires say 36 means you can have lower pressure in your tubes and its harder for stuff to puncture your tire.
-Also if you get flats on your 700x23C every once and a while you will spend way more time fixing flats then you'll save by going fast. Plus you'll have an unreliable commute time... which sucks... in order to assure you make it somewhere you have to leave early which sucks... I've been there

-Fancy tubes made no difference either.

Get a decent rim and build it with some TLC and you'll be fine

2 biggest things are if you see dirt and stuff on the side of the road dont bike there ... there will be spiky stuff you dont see
Also every once and a while (2weeks to 1 month) I deflate my tire and pick/squeeze out all the hunks of glass which are working their way through my tire.
chico1st is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 10:51 PM   #17
mzeffex 
Senior Member
 
mzeffex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Bikes: A Tarmac, a TCR, a Tipo Uno, a Grand Prix Luxe, an Anthem, a Norcross, a Claud Butler, and an SLM 2.0
Posts: 9,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I race cross on a 36 hole Deep V wheelset, only 36 because I didn't want to buy new hubs. they're indestructible, if you didn't guess as much.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Are they talking about spectators feeding the cyclists? You know, like don't feed the bears?
mzeffex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 11:27 PM   #18
chico1st
30mi/day commuter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 794
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Now if you want indestructible build this. Not me.

chico1st is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 11:42 PM   #19
Panthers007
Great State of Varmint
 
Panthers007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dante's Third Ring
Bikes:
Posts: 7,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Awesome machine, Chico!

I'll just add that 18 lbs isn't King Kong. There have been many entries in this forum(s) of people around the 280 lbs range riding, happily and for many years, on Mavic Open Pro rims. They are pretty much bullet-proof, but somehow the larger gentleman have gotten the idea that 150 lbs is the cut-off for skinny wheelsets. May I suggest a visit - and any other questions about weight limits - to:

http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdispl...s-200-lb-91-kg
Panthers007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-10, 11:51 PM   #20
thirdgenbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 7,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i was going to get a wheelset made with cxp33s but found out you can get dt swiss 1.2s cheaper. after talking to a few wheel builders i also learned that they are a better quality rim.

i agree about the competition spokes. i'm 175lbs and have a wheelset with revolutions and a set with compitions. both are 32h 3x. the revolutions defenitly look nice but the comps feel a little more substancial (the revolution set has a deeper profile rim to ofset the thinner spokes)
thirdgenbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-10, 07:30 AM   #21
Mr IGH
afraid of whales
 
Mr IGH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 3,838
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukeskywalker View Post
...Any advice / rim suggestions?
Mavic Open Sports. 470gms, double ferrules, thinner than the Mavic 319 600gm.
Mr IGH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-10, 07:53 AM   #22
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Bikes: Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
Posts: 18,289
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukeskywalker View Post
I want to build a wheelset that is extremely strong, but also able to take 700x23 tires safely.

I'm 180 lbs and will use the bike for commuting in philly. It needs to be fast for dodging cars but strong enough to plow through all of the disintegrating roads

I was thinking 36 spokes, 105 hubs, and velocity dyads... but I think the dyads might be too wide for what I'm going for.

Any advice / rim suggestions?
Short of making a wheel like this


no bicycle wheel can be made that is indestructible. Even that one could be destroyed by a determined user They can be made durable but they should always be considered to be a consumable...like chains, cables, cassettes, bar tape, etc.

For durability, don't concentrate much on the rim. The rim is mostly along for the ride. The spokes do all the heavy lifting. Shorter spokes are better. The Dyad is a good choice that that reason. For truly strong spokes, use DT Alpine III. They are triple butted instead of double. The head/elbow is thicker (2.3mm instead of 2.0mm) so the most stressed part of the spoke is stronger. They also fit in the hub spoke holes tighter so there's less chance for movement which can fatigue the elbow. They are expensive and a little tough to find but they are worth the effort. I have a mountain bike wheel made with them that I built in 2001 or 2002 and it is still running strong...despite my best efforts to break it

Durability
__________________
Stuart Black
New! Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
New! Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.
cyccommute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-10, 08:46 AM   #23
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!
Posts: 29,108
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
I was also going to question the need for 23 tires. One of the best ways to protect a rim and spokes from road hazards is with more rubber and air volume.
HillRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-10, 09:17 AM   #24
Kimmo
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Bikes: velospace.org/viewcluster?c=873
Posts: 7,115
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
On the other hand, a smaller contact patch covers less ground, and the smaller radius tends to spit stuff out the side a bit...

Rim damage is more likely with a smaller tyre, but whether punctures are depends on a few factors.

Since 60% of your weight is on the rear, that wheel is weaker thanks to dish, and it tends to cop more bangs, it makes sense to run the next largest size tyre and even a heavier rim on the back, IMO...

An 80kg bloke could prolly get away with a 425g AeroHead if it's 36h, on the front...

Last edited by Kimmo; 01-05-10 at 09:26 AM.
Kimmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-10, 10:10 AM   #25
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 4,948
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
I built a rear for a 230 pounder who is a strong rider. I used a 105 hub, 36 15 gauge double butted DT spokes and a Mavic Open Sport rim. It has held up well and he is now around 180 pounds.
davidad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 PM.